# \*\* SDMB live coverage thread, 2nd POTUS debate, 10/09/2016 \*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 5, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737 "2016-10-05T22:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/641 "2016-10-10T03:35:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t say that. But thanks for the inept attempt at a paraphrase. No, he totally got you there, that’s exactly what you said! Turned inside out, tied in a knot, but other than that… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/642 "2016-10-10T03:38:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > His stance was far less bigoted than his opponents, and I correctly judged that his position would come to the light with time. > > You’re saying you would support a bigot over someone not bigoted. > > It makes sense that you would vote for the conservative, since that is close to your views on most issues. But understand that you are supporting bigotry over tolerance, and that’s a choice you’re making. I don’t like Pence’s views on LGBT issues, but he does not cross the line into bigotry, in my book. At least not from statements of his I know of, which are limited to him being against gay marriage and prioritizing religious freedom over the civil rights of gays as they relate to businesses. And you said yourself I’m not choosing between bigotry and tolerance, I’m choosing between more bigotry and less bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/643 "2016-10-10T03:39:01Z")
I don’t understand why Clinton didn’t call Trump’s plan to fix health insurance by allowing cross-state competition the BS that it is: > **[The Problem With G.O.P. Plans to Sell Health Insurance Across State Lines...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/upshot/the-problem-with-gop-plans-to-sell-health-insurance-across-state-lines.html)** > > Numerous state regulations aren’t the main reason insurance markets tend to be uncompetitive. I don’t think either candidate was long on substance, but Trump clearly takes the cake for touting his ability to fix every problem ailing this country without every mentioning how he would actually do it - a perfect example being fixing the inner city problem, which he mentions constantly but never says what he would do… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/644 "2016-10-10T03:39:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll admit that I think bigotry is worse than dishonesty, in general. Edwin Edwards was a far better choice for governor than David Duke. Duke was an extreme case. Edwards would not have been better than David Vitter. There’s also a difference between recognizing that you’re supporting the lesser of two evils and outright, enthusiastic support for someone you know to be dishonest and somewhat bigoted. I have very good reasons for liking Mike Pence. He has the requisite experience, he can state his views and argue for conservatism clearly, he would enforce the law in a non-partisan manner and not politicize the federal bureaucracy, and he will not have two sets of views, one for the public and one for his campaign contributors. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/645 "2016-10-10T03:39:48Z")
It’s late and going to bed but here’s what my takeaways are: - Trump survives - Trump survives in terms of securing his base – stops potential defections - Trump may have convinced some undecided voters leaning his way to keep following the race and not abandon ship - Trump probably did not expand his base - The debate almost certainly did not cause Hillary to lose supporters - Trump will, for now, probably slow the bleeding from his taxes and sex tape scandals - I suspect there are more Trump scandals to come (and probably more Wikileaks to come as well). Hillary will probably continue to maintain a 3-5 point advantage in the polls nationally. But I really, really want Hillary to increase the lead. Trump will contest the election. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/646 "2016-10-10T03:41:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t like Pence’s views on LGBT issues, but he does not cross the line into bigotry, in my book. At least not from statements of his I know of, which are limited to him being against gay marriage and prioritizing religious freedom over the civil rights of gays as they relate to businesses. > > And you said yourself I’m not choosing between bigotry and tolerance, I’m choosing between more bigotry and less bigotry. Pence supports “reversion therapy”, which is essentially torture for gay children. But you are (or would be in such an election) supporting bigotry over non bigotry, since Pence’s opponent will undoubtedly be in favor of gay marriage and other gay rights issues. Just own it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/647 "2016-10-10T03:42:29Z")
Why are there two threads on the live debate? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/648 "2016-10-10T03:43:16Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I don’t understand why Clinton didn’t call Trump’s plan to fix health insurance by allowing cross-state competition the BS that it is: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/upshot/the-problem-with-gop-plans-to-sell-health-insurance-across-state-lines.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/upshot/the-problem-with-gop-plans-to-sell-health-insurance-across-state-lines.html) > > I don’t think either candidate was long on substance, but Trump clearly takes the cake for touting his ability to fix every problem ailing this country without every mentioning how he would actually do it - a perfect example being fixing the inner city problem, which he mentions constantly but never says what he would do… Much like tort reform and a public option, it’s not BS, it’s just not much of a fix. But there really is no reason for the federal government to mandate no sales across state lines. We’re supposed to have a common market here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/649 "2016-10-10T03:43:34Z")
Nothing much happened. Trump energized his base, I suppose. Trump energized Clinton’s base, even more likely. But even if Trump had totally flummoxed her and dazzled her with footwork…tomorrow, he will open his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/650 "2016-10-10T03:44:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pence supports “reversion therapy”, which is essentially torture for gay children. > > But you are (or would be in such an election) supporting bigotry over non bigotry, since Pence’s opponent will undoubtedly be in favor of gay marriage and other gay rights issues. Just own it. No, because there’s always a new frontier and the Democrat will always have a public position and a private position on that new frontier. The public position will be the bigoted position. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/651 "2016-10-10T03:45:50Z")
It’s interesting that Robby Mook (Hillary’s campaign manager) is rarely seen spinning anything Hillary has said, but Kellyanne (Trumps mgr.) is seen almost every day shining his shit. That alone tells you who is making progress and who is being carried over the bumps. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/652 "2016-10-10T03:46:55Z")
Besides the apparent admission that he actually didn’t pay federal income taxes, and the threat to jail Hillary, I think another potential land mine for Trump is his explicit denial that he did any of the things he mentioned in the tape. Of course he couldn’t admit it, but I suspect that we are going to see testimony by women coming forward saying he at least kissed them against their will, if not a lot more. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/653 "2016-10-10T03:47:24Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Why are there two threads on the live debate? 😕 +1000 ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/654 "2016-10-10T03:48:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because I don’t vote social issues at the federal level. The federal government has little or no say over abortion or gay rights. It’s all about economic issues and foreign policy at the federal level. Seeing as how these issues have been “solved” in the supreme court in one fashion or another, then you may want to consider it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/655 "2016-10-10T03:48:48Z")
Yes, it was very confusing. What was the point of opening a second thread? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/656 "2016-10-10T03:50:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, because there’s always a new frontier and the Democrat will always have a public position and a private position on that new frontier. The public position will be the bigoted position. Bullshit. Now you’re just rationalizing your support for bigotry with word games. If I had to go back in time and vote between a rich, corporate plutocrat Republican in the 30s who wanted lower taxes on the rich and no minimum wage (but not a white supremacist) vs a white supremacist, pro union and pro workers rights Democrat, I would vote for the Republican. It would be tough for me, and I would be be angry about it, but bigotry really is that bad and harms America that much, IMO. Your opinion might differ about which is more important. But don’t deceive yourself - you are supporting bigotry over non bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/657 "2016-10-10T03:50:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Much like tort reform and a public option, it’s not BS, it’s just not much of a fix. But there really is no reason for the federal government to mandate no sales across state lines. We’re supposed to have a common market here in the US. The federal government DOES NOT mandate “no sales across state lines”! > [@](#): > > The Current Role of Federal Law. Until March 2010 there was no federal law that, in general, either allowed for or prohibited cross-border purchasing of health insurance – only state laws regulate health insurance policies that are “fully insured” – and sold throughout the small employer and individual insurance market in all 50 states. from: [http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/out-of-state-health-insurance-purchases.aspx](http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/out-of-state-health-insurance-purchases.aspx) It’s the _states_ that want to regulate their insurance companies. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/658 "2016-10-10T03:51:00Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > I noticed right after, the cameras were on Trump kissing his family on the cheek. There was a blonde with a pony tail in a black dress. Could’ve been one of Trump’s daughters. He leaned in to kiss her on the cheek, and she backed away from him. That was telling. According to Twitter, that’s the elusive Tiffany Trump, the daughter Donald never talks about and who stays out of the public eye. No idea why she did that, but it’s a hell of a visual with the current media narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/659 "2016-10-10T03:53:23Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Look, I don’t care what else happened, Trump promising to **assign a special prosecutor to imprison his political opponent** is basically all that matters this debate. That’s what dictators do. That sent chills down my spine, yet all I’m reading on social media is that people found that humorous. Funny!!! He has called for the assassination, and now imprisonment, of his political opposition and people think that’s FUNNY!!! That’s the first that I have really been chilled by this election. Oh my God. :eek: It’s not that he said it, though that was chilling enough. It’s that a lot of people seem to think that would be okay. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/660 "2016-10-10T03:53:42Z")
CNN/ORC poll says Clinton won, 57% to 34%. I think Trump started off a flaming disaster and more or less righted himself for the last 60% of the show. But even when he’s doing well (for him) it’s just so clear he is in so far over his head. Forget the non-apologies and childish attacks - the guy has no idea what it means to have an idea to improve the lives of anyone outside of his family. In other words, he is totally incompetent for the job he seeks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=34)