# \*\* SDMB live coverage thread, 2nd POTUS debate, 10/09/2016 \*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 5, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737 "2016-10-05T22:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/721 "2016-10-10T12:16:59Z")
The Pence saga continues: [Pence cancels Tuesday fundraiser.](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/pence-cancels-fundraiser) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/722 "2016-10-10T12:18:55Z")
[Paul Ryan holds meetings with close advisors to discuss best ways to dump Trump](http://www.politico.com/playbook) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/723 "2016-10-10T12:21:59Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I have no interest in a war, but the idea that Russia would risk a nuclear war for Syria is laughable. Putin is not an idiot, he is playing things up for domestic consumption in order to have an excuse to suppress dissent. It is absolutely not in the US or NATO’s interests to back down every time Putin (or China) pushes things slightly further to test our limits. You keep talking about the interests of governments. I’m interested in the interests of human beings. I never said there would be a nuclear war, but it is in our interest to avoid war with Russia because of that possibility. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said that a no-fly zone would require a war. Do you support the no-fly zone? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/724 "2016-10-10T12:30:15Z")
The Republicans cannot stand the bold antiwar stance Trump took against Clinton. They thought Pence’s tough-guy rhetoric in his debate would force Trump. That is their key dispute with Trump. They would rather this election be about 38% tax rates vs 36.5% tax rates. I will add on the Russia topic, it was interesting that Romney was laughed off when he said Russia was the US govt’s biggest enemy. Now it is forbidden to suggest otherwise. Has US-Russia relations taken such a hit under Obama that things have changed so rapidly? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/725 "2016-10-10T12:34:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > . Now it is forbidden to suggest otherwise. Has US-Russia relations taken such a hit under Obama that things have changed so rapidly? So you blame Obama that Putin decided to invade Crimea? Russia has been aggressively flexing it’s muscles and testing the waters for the last 8 years or so. I’d put it squarely on Putin’s back that US-Russia relations have deteriorated. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/726 "2016-10-10T12:39:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not to start the Cosby thing up all over again, but this is not quite accurate either. One of these women lived with him for months after her so-called rape and continued to enjoy educational and financial benefits from him even years after they stopped seeing each other. Some have spoken glowingly of him in the time since they knew him and even showed friends mementos of their time together, never mentioning their so-called rape until it became a potential money-maker. One woman took a shower at his request in his hotel room and came out finding him in bed under the covers. Next thing you know she’s lying in bed next to him and he’s using her hand to masturbate with. No one pays the least attention to the question of how she wound up lying in bed with him if at one point he was in bed under the covers and she was standing at the bathroom door. Did he levitate her there? Janice Dickinson relates how she allegedly woke up to find her pajamas in disarray. No one pays the least attention to the question of what she was doing in his hotel room in the middle of the night in her pajamas in the first place. Another woman claims he stood in front of her in the green room of a talk show with his crotch at a level with her face (is this really what qualifies as sexual assault these days?). No one pays the least attention to the fact that since she was sitting on a couch and he was standing up his crotch would naturally be at a level with her face. Another allowed him to have his way with her in the cabin of a yacht while uttering not a word of protest, and then obviously became incensed when he was rude and dismissive to her afterward. Etc., etc., etc. If you weed out all the women whose stories have holes you could drive a truck through, there probably aren’t but three or four even who might have legitimate claims, and theirs aren’t a slam-dunk. Well folks, that’s all the time we have for today’s _Starving Artist’s Pantheon of Heroes_. Tune in next week for a very special episode: “B.T.K. Richard Ramirez. Theodore Bundy. What do all of these names have in common? They’re all bright, highly motivated men of principle whose reputations were smeared by the liberal press when they dared to follow their dream.” ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/727 "2016-10-10T12:48:41Z")
**Starving Artist** , maybe have some food. The hunger is obviously clouding your ability to think clearly. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/728 "2016-10-10T12:52:57Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > So you blame Obama that Putin decided to invade Crimea? Russia has been aggressively flexing it’s muscles and testing the waters for the last 8 years or so. I’d put it squarely on Putin’s back that US-Russia relations have deteriorated. Romney did this in 2012. 4 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/729 "2016-10-10T12:54:22Z")
I want to take a minute to talk about Hillary’s strength. That took real guts, to stand there and face down Donald’s threats and attempts to intimidate her with his size and his anger. She didn’t flinch. She didn’t get rattled. She stood there and let his abuse wash over her. I was impressed. I’m proud she’s going to be our president. I expect Putin and other misogynist world leaders will try similar tactics. I’m sure she’ll handle it with grace. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/730 "2016-10-10T12:54:42Z")
We can look at the two possible worlds: 1. Cosby never sexually assaulted anyone. - That would leave us with a huge problem of so many women coming forward with highly similar stories, as well as him admitting to drugging women in a court case. 1. Cosby having committed multiple cases of sexual assault. - That would leave us with nothing difficult to explain. Some of the accusations are expected to be difficult to prove, or have attributes that makes the accusation weaker. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/731 "2016-10-10T12:59:20Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Romney did this in 2012. 4 years ago. Romney did what? ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/732 "2016-10-10T13:19:42Z")
[Sniffles](https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/trumps-sniffles-star-again-in-second-debate-030441144.html) Sorry, there’s a 15 second commercial before the video. I was very uncomfortable watching Trump hovering over Hillary while she spoke. I also hated when he would raise his mike to get in a one-liner while she was speaking. Did the moderators know what question the audience members were going to ask? At the end Raddatz said they were going to get in one more question. Do you think she wanted that ending question? to end the debate on a higher note? My FB is filled with Trump supporters, and what kills me is that they’re too stupid to realize that what Trump says he’s going to do, is impossible. It’s so frustrating to talk about the election with them, and to see the crap they share, that I finally just gave up, and unfriended a bunch of people. I wonder how many people have ended friendships over the election. I have people I’ve known my whole life that are supporting Trump, and I’ve found that I just don’t respect them anymore, I don’t feel the same way about them. I was really proud of Hillary, I think she’ll make a great President. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/733 "2016-10-10T13:24:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I will add on the Russia topic, it was interesting that Romney was laughed off when he said Russia was the US govt’s biggest enemy. Now it is forbidden to suggest otherwise. Has US-Russia relations taken such a hit under Obama that things have changed so rapidly? Sort of an excluded middle there. Russia can be a credible threat without be greater than, say, a nuclear armed Iran or ISIS. My takeaway from the debate was likely the conventional wisdom: Trump did better than expected but not as well as Clinton. This is a problem for the GOP from two fronts; first because Trump didn’t change his failing trajectory and second because Trump’s failure to completely flame out puts both the Republicans who abandoned him this weekend and those who may still want to abandon him in a difficult spot. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/734 "2016-10-10T13:35:31Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Did the moderators know what question the audience members were going to ask? At the end Raddatz said they were going to get in one more question. Do you think she wanted that ending question? to end the debate on a higher note? They said at the beginning that she and Anderson hadn’t seen the questions until that morning and I am 100% sure that when they saw that question they knew they were going to make it the final question of the night, by gum! After last night’s debate, I remain stupefied that Donald has any support at all. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/735 "2016-10-10T13:39:02Z")
My opinion of the debate last night. Trump: Trump was Trump. Sadly there was not the full-blown meltdown I had hoped for but he certainly hurt himself several times in fairly big ways. Once again he provided no details to how he would do anything he promises and almost never answered the question asked. It was all mumbo-jumbo non-answers. He was in full-blown bullshit artist mode. And his base will love him for it. In debates I already expect politicians to not actually answer the question but instead to make a point they desire to make (talking points) regardless of the question asked. Trump cannot even do that successfully as his answers are incoherent, unrelated statements with nothing tying them together into a consumable thought/point. I do not believe he stopped the bleeding, he didn’t do well enough for that. But he has slowed down the blood loss. I do think there is more bad news to come in the next few days that will hit in the media and Trump set himself up for some big falls. But he gave his angry mob that supports him enough to quell any slight concerns they’ve had over the last 72 hours events. I do not believe he did anything to attract new voters which in the big picture is his weakness. He shored up his base with the crude attacks, gave them exactly what they wanted to see - reality-TV theatrics of him playing Tough Guy and telling the bitch off. After the beating he has taken the last few days, appeasing the angry mob is a pseudo-victory for him. He still loses the election. Clinton: I think she did what she needed to do. She kept her composure and maintained her appearance as being Presidential and qualified to run the country. That was no small task in the face of Trump’s crude behavior. She firmly called Trump out on the video (and an assist from Anderson Cooper!) and being unfit to be President. She let him show the world exactly who he is. Although Trump landed a few shots, no haymakers that would concern her supporters and she will have attracted more undecided voters who will remain very uncomfortable with Trump’s sexism, bigotry, racism, and temperament. At the end of the day though I really don’t think Clinton did (or can) calm the concerns people have regarding emails, past infidelities, perception of honestly, etc. Those accusations have become ingrained in many people’s mind as The Truth and I don’t think there is anything she can do to move that needle. Those will continue to be lines of attack against her that will give some people pause. But she didn’t hurt herself, she didn’t do anything to drop her standing in the polls and critical swing states, and coming out of the debate she still will have a fairly comfortable path to victory in the election. Just my opinions/observations, trying to be non-biased as I can. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/736 "2016-10-10T14:00:08Z")
I think Mean Joe is pretty close to being on the money. My thoughts: Trump: Gave us a head fake with his appearance with the Clinton accusers. I think that kind of rattled Hillary a little, to the extent that she can be rattled. The return of Mr. Sniffles didn’t help his cause. Jesus, dude, move the mike to one side if you’re going to do that. He was crass and rude and interrupted repeatedly. His comments about putting Hillary in jail may have been red meat for his mindless minions, but didn’t win any supporters. He seems to be in primary mode and unable to escape, he knows how to excite the base but he’s unable to expand the base. Hillary: She was more engaging with the audience, taking time to converse with them while Trump just talked past them to attack her. Her Lincoln defense was hard to follow and she should have had a better and simpler answer to the two-faces question. But she seemed presidential and mature, two qualities her opponent noticeably lacks. You got the impression that she was in victory formation and just taking a knee on every snap. It’s her race to lose and barring catastrophe, she will not lose. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/737 "2016-10-10T14:13:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not to start the Cosby thing up all over again, but this is not quite accurate either. Your original statement was that there was more evidence that Bill Clinton had committed rape/sexual assault/sexual harassment, etc. than there was against Cosby. There are about 60 accusers against Cosby versus 3 (that were mentioned and featured by Trump) against Bill Clinton. There is a common modus operandi among many of the 60 women, though some are different and you can always point out differences by examining them each very closely. Given that there are only 3 featured by Trump against Bill Clinton, there isn’t enough there to really establish a similar common modus operandi against Bill Clinton, particularly when including Monica since the details of her involvement with Bill are already so well known. So, the point stands - it is apparent there is more evidence against Cosby of rape/sexual assault/sexual harassment (particularly evidence that could actually be used in either criminal or civil rules of evidence in any court case since in many states there are rules that specifically allow in accusations of other bad acts/incidents to show a common modus operandi) than against Bill Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/738 "2016-10-10T14:20:58Z")
Don’t know if anyone has said this yet, haven’t read every post. Regarding the last question: Trump’s compliment for Hillary should have been that orange is her color and how good she’ll look in an orange jumpsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/739 "2016-10-10T14:23:22Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > Don’t know if anyone has said this yet, haven’t read every post. Regarding the last question: Trump’s compliment for Hillary should have been that orange is her color and how good she’ll look in an orange jumpsuit. That’s the kind of thing which would sound good to people already firmly in the Trump camp, but which would disgust people on the fence. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/740 "2016-10-10T14:26:17Z")
I’m really surprised that the moderators aren’t getting more credit for holding the line in this debate. It was priceless watching Trump complain about Hillary getting 25 more seconds than he did. Actually, he complained several times that the moderators weren’t fair, at one time, calling it 3 on 1. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=38)