# \*\* SDMB live coverage thread, 2nd POTUS debate, 10/09/2016 \*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 5, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737 "2016-10-05T22:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/801 "2016-10-11T01:30:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > What Bill did is about as important to this campaign as what grade Chelsea got in art class in the 2nd grade. His supporters will cheer. but this isn’t adding anyone to his column. Wait; what’s the scandal about Chelsea’s 2nd grade art class? This could be the break the [del]McCain[/del][del]Romney[/del]Trump campaign has been waiting for! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/802 "2016-10-11T01:35:47Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Glad that’s settled! And in the universe where Bill Clinton is running against Bill Cosby for president, this will be vitally important. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! 😛 Starving Artist never fails to set up some great lines, does he? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/803 "2016-10-11T01:39:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So one point that I haven’t seen raised was when Trump talked nukes: > > Now I know there is a push for a massive upgrade in America’s nuclear arsenal but is it fair to say the U.S. is old and busted and Russia shiny and state of the art? (putting aside the imho rather reckless nature of the comment) Not ‘busted’ as in ineffective, but yes US strategic delivery systems are relatively old, with no recent additions compared to significant ones in case of Russia, and China seems to be moving toward significantly expanding their force from the small size, by US and Russian standards, it long saw as adequate. The situation isn’t close to upsetting deterrence in the near to medium future. Still nobody has ABM systems effective against large numbers of ballistic missiles nor likely to, ASW capabilities likely to preempt a significant SSBN force, nor enough deployed air defense density to shoot down a large % of bomber launched cruise missiles (though some Russian systems can do that where they do cover) or B-2’s directly dropping gravity bombs. And the US systems while all pretty old have life left. However replacement programs are required in all three legs and it’s a real issue how to accommodate a ‘bow wave’ of expense of major programs in all three, addition of the B-21 bomber and LRSO missile for it and earlier bombers which remain, Columbia class SSBN’s (and eventually a new SLBM for them) and Minuteman ICBM replacement at around the same time. So there might be pressure to drop a leg in the 2030’s, with the decision point significantly closer than that, against what might by then be a significant third force in China besides replacement Russian stuff. It’s a valid topic for debate, not IMO at all reckless to bring up. It wasn’t given a very substantive treatment (by Trump as typically, and Clinton didn’t even respond IIRC), but not a phony issue. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/804 "2016-10-11T01:39:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I… > Clearly Trump was trying to avoid having to say he never did it, or else he would have denied it immediately. Given what he said and his reputation, I would be very surprised if he never had done it, and if there aren’t women waiting in the wings to testify to it as soon as the controversy dies down a bit. But Trump was boxed in enough that he had to deny it explicitly. There was a woman on MSNBC tonight who described a tour where Trump took her aside and at least twice ran his hand up her dress after cornering her. This was about 1995. Lisa Bloom is that woman’s attorney, probably not for a real case, but for the publicity it provides. Lisa hinted that there were probably others about to come forward. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/805 "2016-10-11T02:29:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK. Whoever asked it had to be thinking: I’ve got this guy right in the cross hairs, and I’m going to let 'er rip!! [Anderson Cooper Begins Debate By Giving Trump Opportunity To Explain What The Fuck Is Wrong With Him](http://www.theonion.com/article/anderson-cooper-begins-debate-giving-trump-opportu-54135) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/806 "2016-10-11T02:30:22Z")
Can’t wait for “this debate is rigged, two women and a gay man!” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/807 "2016-10-11T02:38:38Z")
Anderson Cooper and Mike Pence both have their hair done by the same sculptor. Bernie has his done at WeedWhackers. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/808 "2016-10-11T02:50:19Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Can’t wait for “this debate is rigged, two women and a gay man!” And don’t forget the microphone. It was rigged to make him sound ignorant and whiny! And sniffy! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/809 "2016-10-11T02:51:52Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > It’s a valid topic for debate, not IMO at all reckless to bring up. It wasn’t given a very substantive treatment (by Trump as typically, and Clinton didn’t even respond IIRC), but not a phony issue. I generally agree with what you posted, but let me give a slightly different take on this. The US nuclear arsenal needs to be modernized, though there’s certainly room for debate about what that modernization should look like. Do we have to modernize everything? Can we modernize some things and not bother with others? Do we need small nukes or big ones? Etc. But the key fact left out is that the next President can shape those decisions, but he or she cannot fix the problem Trump talked about: “We need new nukes now because Russia.” Im-fucking-possible. The US nuclear modernization program, no matter how small or ambitious you go, is going to take 10-30 years - not eight. The Presidents after the next President or two are going to be the ones fielding these weapons. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/810 "2016-10-11T02:53:09Z")
I think I may have it, I think the way he holds the mic (especially last night) puts it at an angle so that when he exhales heavily through his nostrils, the air flow strikes the mike _directly_, exaggerating its actual flow. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/811 "2016-10-11T02:59:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Anderson Cooper Begins Debate By Giving Trump Opportunity To Explain What The Fuck Is Wrong With Him](http://www.theonion.com/article/anderson-cooper-begins-debate-giving-trump-opportu-54135) Bee-you-tee-full!! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/812 "2016-10-11T03:24:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So one point that I haven’t seen raised was when Trump talked nukes: > > > [@](#): > > > > Now, with that being said, she talks tough against Russia. But our nuclear program has fallen way behind, and they’ve gone wild with their nuclear program. Not good. Our government shouldn’t have allowed that to happen. Russia is new in terms of nuclear. We are old. We’re tired. We’re exhausted in terms of nuclear. A very bad thing. > > Now I know there is a push for a massive upgrade in America’s nuclear arsenal but is it fair to say the U.S. is old and busted and Russia shiny and state of the art? (putting aside the imho rather reckless nature of the comment) So, Trump is saying our missiles are limp and flaccid? That they don’t stand proudly erect any more? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/813 "2016-10-11T04:18:47Z")
In five minutes, when asked about Aleppo and the humanitarian tragedy there, we witnessed a perfect macrocosm of the election. Clinton presents a clear strategy, the finer points of which could be discussed but which is, by and large, reasonable - or at least not crazy at first glance. Trump meanders from bizarre misstatement to misstatement, erroneously claiming that Aleppo has already fallen, arguing that we have no idea who the rebels are, praising Assad for “fighting ISIS” (he hasn’t been), connecting Aleppo to Mosul (despite the two having basically nothing in common), and more. One candidate clearly knows what she’s talking about and has real, detailed plans to help ameliorate the situation. The other has no idea what he’s talking about and struggles to stay on topic for five seconds. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/814 "2016-10-11T04:31:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I > The US nuclear arsenal needs to be modernized, though there’s certainly room for debate about what that modernization should look like. Yes, except it’s important to note that this has already started, as you say it’s a 30 year program, and initial funding was signed in 2010, by Obama. > **[Renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renovation_of_the_nuclear_weapon_arsenal_of_the_United_States)** > > The renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the United States is the modernization, refurbishment and rebuilding of the nuclear arsenal of the United States of America. > Facilities for maintenance and refurbishment of U.S. nuclear weapons allegedly became dilapidated after the end of the Cold War with the Soviet Union. The United States planned to spend about a trillion dollars over thirty years to rectify this shortfall, which some saw as a reversal from President Barack Obama's 2009 Prague... ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/815 "2016-10-11T06:38:48Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Glad that’s settled! And in the universe where Bill Clinton is running against Bill Cosby for president, this will be vitally important. What a tired meme. I don’t recall Democrats thinking Bill Clinton’s abuse of power a governor and president were a problem when he was president and when he ran for president. Hypocrisy is a legitimate complaint. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/816 "2016-10-11T06:57:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What a tired meme. I don’t recall Democrats thinking Bill Clinton’s abuse of power a governor and president were a problem when he was president and when he ran for president. Hypocrisy is a legitimate complaint. What powers did he abuse as governor? What powers did he abuse as president? He was only impeached for charges of perjury and obstruction of justice, both of which were alleged to have occurred in a civil suit unrelated to any official actions on his part as a government official. And since Bill Cosby has never held government office and therefore is not being accused of abuse of power, but rather rape/sexual assault, your complaint does not make sense. There are no logical consistency problems with being unsure of Bill Clinton’s guilt of sexually assaulting/raping/sexually harassing three different women in three largely different stories and being much more convinced of Bill Cosby’s guilt of sexual assault/rape based on the stories of sixty different women, of which many stories share common details and methods. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/817 "2016-10-11T06:59:54Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Trump meanders from bizarre misstatement to misstatement, **erroneously claiming that Aleppo has already fallen** , arguing that we have no idea who the rebels are, praising Assad for “fighting ISIS” (he hasn’t been), connecting Aleppo to Mosul (despite the two having basically nothing in common), and more. I got the distinct vibe from his response that he was thinking, _“Aleppo, shit, I don’t know what happens if Aleppo falls…quick, gotta say something that will keep me from having to indicate knowledge of the facts on the ground…I know, I’ll say it’s basically already fallen, so it’s too late! Yeah, that’s the ticket!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/818 "2016-10-11T09:41:48Z")
[Nice write up in the Economist](http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2016/10/second-presidential-debate-0) where they point out many of the dumb things said that passed many people by (because you can only focus on so much stupid at a time). e.g. What did he mean by “Russia is new in terms of nuclear?” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/819 "2016-10-11T10:08:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What a tired meme. I don’t recall Democrats thinking Bill Clinton’s abuse of power a governor and president were a problem when he was president and when he ran for president. Hypocrisy is a legitimate complaint. Maybe it’s a legitimate complaint, but not against Hillary, and not as a defense of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/820 "2016-10-11T11:33:36Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I got the distinct vibe from his response that he was thinking, _“Aleppo, shit, I don’t know what happens if Aleppo falls…quick, gotta say something that will keep me from having to indicate knowledge of the facts on the ground…I know, I’ll say it’s basically already fallen, so it’s too late! Yeah, that’s the ticket!”_ That was my interpretation as well. Trump clearly didn’t know what he was talking about and was just trying to keep his head above water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=42)