# \*\* SDMB live coverage thread, 2nd POTUS debate, 10/09/2016 \*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 5, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737 "2016-10-05T22:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/821 "2016-10-11T12:13:29Z")
Reminds me of those nightmares I used to have when I was a student: I’d show up the first day of school and find out we had a quizz for a subject I never studied for. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/822 "2016-10-11T12:20:25Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Reminds me of those nightmares I used to have when I was a student: I’d show up the first day of school and find out we had a quizz for a subject I never studied for. At least he wasn’t naked. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/823 "2016-10-11T12:37:32Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > At least he wasn’t naked. Gawd. A fish-white body, with orange face and hands. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/824 "2016-10-11T13:24:31Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > [Nice write up in the Economist](http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2016/10/second-presidential-debate-0) where they point out many of the dumb things said that passed many people by (because you can only focus on so much stupid at a time). I felt the closing lines were all to sharp. > [@](#): > > All the same, it was a telling, lamentable milestone in America’s politics. Mr Trump had already shattered taboos surrounding decency, honesty and intellectual incoherence. With his threats against Mrs Clinton he took a step down a dark road that should frighten every American. I think politics will only get worse from here out. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/825 "2016-10-11T13:35:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The other has no idea what he’s talking about and struggles to stay on topic for five seconds. It reminds me of a schoolchild called upon to do a book report when he didn’t read the book. As in, he knows that “Johnny Tremain” is about a boy in Revolutionary America, but once he’s put _that_ into a sentence he has to start scrambling to think of anything else sorta connected that he can use to pad out his report. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/826 "2016-10-11T15:06:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > But the key fact left out is that the next President can shape those decisions, but he or she cannot fix the problem Trump talked about: “We need new nukes now because Russia.” Im-fucking-possible. The US nuclear modernization program, no matter how small or ambitious you go, is going to take 10-30 years - not eight. The Presidents after the next President or two are going to be the ones fielding these weapons. I realize I’m not a genius or anything, but I knew - and sort of assumed everyone knew - that modern armed forces modernization and purchasing projects are ALWAYS decade-or-longer programs. You do not simply go out to Best Buy to pick up new nuclear warheads. Like, surely any reasonably well informed and educated person knows that, right? You don’t have to be reading Jane’s Defense Weekly, if that’s still a thing, to know that it takes a long time to design and build a complicated weapons system. It’s not just nukes. The M1 Abrams tank, the main battle tank of the United States armed services, took seven years to design in its first incarnation, and it was six years after that before they started producing the version that had the type of gun they currently carry. It’s been continuously upgraded since then. The US Navy is now building Gerald Ford-class aircraft carriers, and those took God only knows how long to design and even as they’re building the first ones they are redesigning parts of them. Everyone knows about the trials and tribulations involved in the producing of the F-22 and F-35 fighters. Donald Trump is no expert on nuclear weapons but in this regard he knows full well what he’s saying is a sound bite that means nothing (he’s so incoherent that watching the debate, my mother didn’t realize he was referring to nuclear weapons, because he just calls them “the nuclear.”) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/827 "2016-10-11T15:13:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I realize I’m not a genius or anything, but I knew - and sort of assumed everyone knew - that modern armed forces modernization and purchasing projects are ALWAYS decade-or-longer programs. You do not simply go out to Best Buy to pick up new nuclear warheads. > > … The F35 for instance. First flight: December 15, 2006 Design started in the 1990s. It’s just now getting to the flight line and not even fully functional yet. You’re right, this isn’t a go to Amazon and order whatever you want thing. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/828 "2016-10-11T15:23:53Z")
Regardless, they have already announced a trillion dollar 30 year upgrade plan for the nuclear arsenal so we don’t need Trump to get it started. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/829 "2016-10-11T15:42:53Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > It reminds me of a schoolchild called upon to do a book report when he didn’t read the book. As in, he knows that “Johnny Tremain” is about a boy in Revolutionary America, but once he’s put _that_ into a sentence he has to start scrambling to think of anything else sorta connected that he can use to pad out his report. During the debate a friend posted, “Hillary looks like every high school English teacher when a student starts talking about a woman named Scarlet who wrote a letter.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/830 "2016-10-11T15:43:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I realize I’m not a genius or anything, but I knew - and sort of assumed everyone knew - that modern armed forces modernization and purchasing projects are ALWAYS decade-or-longer programs… > > Donald Trump is no expert on nuclear weapons but in this regard he knows full well what he’s saying is a sound bite that means nothing (he’s so incoherent that watching the debate, my mother didn’t realize he was referring to nuclear weapons, because he just calls them “the nuclear.”) You’re quite right that all weapons take a long time to field, but the nuclear modernization issue is far more complex. Debate on whether we need a new tank or plane is relatively routine - how many should we make it? Debate on nuclear weapons modernization is incredibly complex. Building a new warhead would have profound implications on our nuclear policy, for example, and it may take years to figure that issue out even before any engineering can be done at all. I have absolutely no reason to believe that he knows anything at all about this area. I do not believe he has any idea of whether what he’s saying makes any sense at all, much less that it’s meaningless. If I started talking about genetic treatments for prion-related diseases, and what that means for dopamine receptors, I would say I have as much understanding of that issue as Trump does for nuclear weapons policy. That is, literally zero. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/831 "2016-10-11T15:45:36Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The F35 for instance. > First flight: December 15, 2006 > Design started in the 1990s. > It’s just now getting to the flight line and not even fully functional yet. > > You’re right, this isn’t a go to Amazon and order whatever you want thing. Yeah, I thought most people knew that as well, but Trump is all about the simple answer to any question. I think he truly believes that all the problems in the country are because our leaders are too stupid, cowardly, or greedy to take the obvious, simple answer sitting right in front of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/832 "2016-10-11T16:21:10Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Yeah, I thought most people knew that as well, but Trump is all about the simple answer to any question. I think he truly believes that all the problems in the country are because our leaders are too stupid, cowardly, or greedy to take the obvious, simple answer sitting right in front of them. That’s endemic of management. I run into this every day at my job: managers angry because “Why do I keep hearing about problems with ? Why can’t we just do [Y]?” They have no operational knowledge. So every time, you have to explain that the problem with is very complex, and their 10sec solution [Y] isn’t going to do anything to solve it. There’ve been _really smart_ people working on these problems for decades, and they’ve improved things, but it’ll probably always be a problem. Somewhere before the end of the explanations, frustration sets in and it all dissolves in plaintive complaints and an order to “set up a team to fix this!” The Donald is the middle manager that makes all our work lives Hell. I can’t believe people want to let him do the same to the whole country. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/833 "2016-10-11T17:53:28Z")
Unsurprisingly, Trump’s bobo Scott Adams feels Trump, the Master Persuader, won the second debate “… bigly. This one wasn’t close.” There has been no further comment related to the fact that post-debate polls said most voters felt Clinton won, or the fact there is no evidence in general polls Trump got a debate bounce. Adams made some neat points about Trump and election tactics in general many months ago but he’s now such an obsessive Trump fan his observations are veering into the “alternate reality” so beloved by alt-rightists and Trumpists. He sounds more and more like an MRA pickup artist, convinced that cleverly named little neurolinguistic programming tools (all employed by Trump) are guaranteed winners, and that everything Trump does is a deliberate move. That’s a “Contrast play.” The threat to imprison Clinton was a joke, not a threat. The Rosie O’Donnell reference in Debate 1 was a good move. (I’m serious.) I mean, think what you want, but the winner of a debate is the candidate who uses the debate to change the polls. And the polls are not changing in Trump’s favor. So he didn’t win. \*\* There is nothing else to it.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/834 "2016-10-11T17:57:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > He sounds more and more like an MRA pickup artist, convinced that cleverly named little neurolinguistic programming tools (all employed by Trump) are guaranteed winners, and that everything Trump does is a deliberate move. That’s a “Contrast play.” The threat to imprison Clinton was a joke, not a threat. The Rosie O’Donnell reference in Debate 1 was a good move. (I’m serious.) You’ve described Scott Adams to a t. He’s gone off into narcissistic mania land. To people like him, Trump is a God. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/835 "2016-10-11T18:06:23Z")
Trump doesn’t have an elaborate playbook-he has a comic book. _Axe-Cop_. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/836 "2016-10-11T18:11:40Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > e.g. What did he mean by “Russia is new in terms of nuclear?” I think he meant that they have newer bombs and missiles than we do. He is difficult to translate. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/837 "2016-10-11T18:30:47Z")
“Despite winning the second debate in a landslide (every poll), …” is a quote from a tweet by Trump. how can you debate, argue, reason, with folks that hold such believe in such an obvious (and easy to disprove) line? I just don’t know how to do this… what can you do against that? facts don’t matter… cause/effect don’t matter… “Everyone is against us, so we must be right” is all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/838 "2016-10-11T18:37:58Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > “Despite winning the second debate in a landslide (every poll), …” is a quote from a tweet by Trump. how can you debate, argue, reason, with folks that hold such believe in such an obvious (and easy to disprove) line? > > I just don’t know how to do this… what can you do against that? facts don’t matter… cause/effect don’t matter… “Everyone is against us, so we must be right” is all that matters. He’s channeling George Orwell. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/839 "2016-10-11T22:49:37Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > “Despite winning the second debate in a landslide (every poll), …” is a quote from a tweet by Trump. how can you debate, argue, reason, with folks that hold such believe in such an obvious (and easy to disprove) line? I don’t get it either. Pence could sit there and deny that Trump said or did the things Kaine said, things we’ve SEEN multiple times in footage?! I had a good laugh at “We haven’t spoken; I disagree.” No frigging diplomacy at all. And then I felt repulsed by him likening Hillary to the Devil, and saying she has hate in her heart. There are plenty of other things to hammer her on; “hate in her heart” is something you can’t judge. And footage of some of his supporters certain would look like hate. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/840 "2016-10-11T23:07:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I mean, think what you want, but the winner of a debate is the candidate who uses the debate to change the polls. And the polls are not changing in Trump’s favor. So he didn’t win. \*\* There is nothing else to it.\*\* I can only assume Scot Adams has drunk so much kool-aid that he actually believes all the scientific polls are biased. He’s clearly as delusional as Trump is now… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=43)