# \*\* SDMB live coverage thread, 2nd POTUS debate, 10/09/2016 \*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 5, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737 "2016-10-05T22:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/841 "2016-10-11T23:23:05Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I can only assume Scot Adams has drunk so much kool-aid that he actually believes all the scientific polls are biased. He’s clearly as delusional as Trump is now… Bah. I have books by him which prove he believed in the neuro-linguistic programming crap back in the 1990s; in fact, they’re how I was introduced to the concept. He also has a mish-mash of bizarre ideas about luck and quantum physics (always with the quantum woo-woo, these nutballs…) which I’ll let [this page at insolitology.com summarize for me](http://www.insolitology.com/rloddities/dilbert.htm); in summary, he’s not nearly as smart as he thinks he is, and it prevents him from thinking he’s wrong, which leads him to rabbit down all kinds of nonsensical trails. I knew he was a Trump supporter back a while ago. Happily, it isn’t 1996 anymore, so Dilbert is no longer relevant and neither is he. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/842 "2016-10-12T01:28:44Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I don’t get it either. Pence could sit there and deny that Trump said or did the things Kaine said, things we’ve SEEN multiple times in footage?! > > I had a good laugh at “We haven’t spoken; I disagree.” No frigging diplomacy at all. > > And then I felt repulsed by him likening Hillary to the Devil, and saying she has hate in her heart. There are plenty of other things to hammer her on; “hate in her heart” is something you can’t judge. And footage of some of his supporters certain would look like hate. Apparently likening Hillary to the devil is fairly common among certain of his followers; a couple of days ago I saw [this](https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+as+devil&biw=1252&bih=751&tbm=isch&imgil=e1X-PNFYlG7BXM%253A%253Bk67A9woOeOAgtM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Flockerdome.com%25252Flibertyunyielding%25252F7495009117153556&source=iu&pf=m&fir=e1X-PNFYlG7BXM%253A%252Ck67A9woOeOAgtM%252C_&usg=__rHKhi3cT-quRYa-wg2Iz6vdzRSs%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjw3dTDjdTPAhVnylQKHZMPCQIQyjcIMA&ei=ppD9V_DyMOeU0wKTn6QQ#imgrc=e1X-PNFYlG7BXM%3A) in a photo of a Trump rally being carried as a sign by a Trump supporter. It does seem unhinged. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/843 "2016-10-12T08:52:26Z")
Back to the radical Islam question and why it can’t be said, this is why: > **[In leaked email, Clinton claims Saudi and Qatari governments fund ISIS](https://www.yahoo.com/news/in-leaked-email-clinton-claims-saudi-and-qatari-governments-fund-isis-221758254.html)** > > Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton speaks at a rally at Ohio State University in Monday. The Clinton campaign today tried to tamp down a mounting controversy over a newly disclosed, and potentially explosive, email in which the former... Because the Saudis and Qataris are radical Islamists and they support radical Islamists. This isn’t about average Muslims or impugning Islam, it’s about keeping our allies on board by treating them with kid gloves even though they are funding people who want to kill us. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/844 "2016-10-12T10:02:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Trump doesn’t have an elaborate playbook-he has a comic book. > _Axe-Cop_. That would imply a level of juvenile light-heartedness and a certain endearing quality. Neither of which Trump posesses. Also, Scott Adams is fuckin’ _weird_. Like, even the guys I hang out with at hypnosis websites think that guy has lost his marbles. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/845 "2016-10-12T10:34:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because the Saudis and Qataris are radical Islamists and they support radical Islamists. . The governments of the Qatar and the Saudi Arabia are not “radical islamists”, by any meaning that makes sense. You have no idea what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/846 "2016-10-12T10:56:26Z")
Have they stopped beheading gay people yet? Have they given equal rights to non-Muslims yet? Can women drive cars yet? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/847 "2016-10-12T11:01:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Have they stopped beheading gay people yet? Have they given equal rights to non-Muslims yet? Can women drive cars yet? Who is they? Or have you stopped stringing together incoherencies yet and making strange bizarre political predictions that fail? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/848 "2016-10-12T11:41:07Z")
I wouldn’t waste your time - Ramira is a very fervent Islam apologist. I’ve never seen him/her ever concede even the most rudimentary and obvious point as it relates to anything remotely Islamic. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/849 "2016-10-12T11:48:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **adaher** , you seem to have fled from our discussion about candidates and bigotry, and I think it was a very interesting discussion. First, I’ll make it clear I’ve seen nothing from you that makes me think you have any bigoted feelings. But I do think you’re deceiving yourself if you think that candidates like Pence, and Pence in particular, have not unapologetically said very bigoted things about gay people (and trans people, for that matter). I think it’s worth looking inside yourself to see how important opposing bigotry is for you. Right now, any presidential candidate Pence will face is very likely to be non-bigoted on these positions, and unless Pence changes significantly, his positions and statements are very bigoted. I urge you to both argue for conservatives to abandon this sort of bigotry but also _stop supporting bigotry with your votes_, even when I know you vote in spite of these feelings rather than for them. **adaher** , I’m repeating this post again because you either missed it or are fleeing from it. Care to respond? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/850 "2016-10-12T11:49:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wouldn’t waste your time - Ramira is a very fervent Islam apologist. I’ve never seen him/her ever concede even the most rudimentary and obvious point as it relates to anything remotely Islamic. By “rudimentary and obvious point” do you mean broad-brushing that blames the actions of a relative few on over a billion people? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/851 "2016-10-12T11:57:25Z")
No, I mean basic obvious facts like pretending the Saudi government is not Islamist, does not do reprehensible things, and does not deliberately spread and fund Wahabism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/852 "2016-10-12T12:00:33Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No, I mean basic obvious facts like pretending the Saudi government is not Islamist, does not do reprehensible things, and does not deliberately spread and fund Wahabism. If so, that doesn’t have anything to do with **Ramira’s** criticism of **adaher** ’s broad-brushing of Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/853 "2016-10-12T12:05:02Z")
I guess you’re in his/her camp too. Adaher specifically said he wasn’t talking about all Muslims but that the Saudi and Qatari governments supported radical Islam. I don’t know enough about Qatar to support that point, but the Saudi government undoubtedly does exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/854 "2016-10-12T12:13:24Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wouldn’t waste your time - Ramira is a very fervent Islam apologist. I’ve never seen him/her ever concede even the most rudimentary and obvious point as it relates to anything remotely Islamic. You mean I am a corrector of stupid errors and stupid lies about things Islamic, but for many persons bigotted or hateful or grossly ignorant they mistake this for “apology” and of course there is no conceding about things that are the lies or the errors or just gross ignorance and confusion. As in the melange of strung together vague assertions he made. Since we are speaking to the two states, the Saudi Arabia and the Qatar, it is more than obvious that all he has done, adaher, is blindly repeat attacks. The state of Qatar, for example, it is perfectly legal and has always been for the women to drive and the men and the women both got the right to vote at the same time when the absolute monarchy was changed to a constitutional one. For most of the matters of the civil law there is the male and the female equality before the law. In the Qatar there is no requirements to be veiled and there are numerous highly visible women executives. the law in Qatar is essentially the civil code and neutral for religion outside of the family law, _ **ETC** _ - so it is quite clear adaher as the usual habit here is making a confusing melange of things true about the Saudi and smearing others with it. An extremely stupid response to my note. In any case, neither the government of the state of Qatar nor the government of the Ibn Saud are “radical islamist” - they are indeed the arch conservatives, but they are traditionalists - although the Qatar is much less so than the Ibn Saud government, and in some areas the Qatar is quite progressive within the framework of the traditionalist conservatism of their version of the Sunni. The actual radical islamists reject the idea of the monarchies, they reject the idea of the civil code (which is the law in Qatar augmented by the islamic law in the areas of the family law), they embrace the idea of the takfir, etc. The state of Qatar has funded both the moderate Islamist tendencies as in places like the Tunisia and provided backing to the Islamist oriented militias in the civil wars of the Syria and the Lybia. But they have never shown any deliberate inclination to the Al Qaeda or the DAESH. the leakage of the clumsy actions of the Qataris to probably support by ricochet the very tendencies that would execute their monarches is their naive incompetence, and does not make them “radical islamist”, not more than the Americans are radical islamists from having supported by accident or by ricochet some of the precursor elements that became the Talebans and al Qaeda. So adaher is wrong and his statement about the two governments is stupid, incorrect and naive. Of course we know that for the Islamophobics, “radical islamist” = “the muslims who scare me” in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/855 "2016-10-12T12:17:13Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No, I mean basic obvious facts like pretending the Saudi government is not Islamist, does not do reprehensible things, and does not deliberately spread and fund Wahabism. No one “pretended” any such thing, this is your invention of a straw man. What I said so no pretensions can be made (the emphasis added. > [@](#): > > The governments of the Qatar and the Saudi Arabia are not “radical islamists”, \*\*by any meaning that makes sense. \*\* > > You have no idea what you are talking about. I stated that neither of those governments is “radical islamist” and that is indeed factual. not once have I ever made a defense of the Ibn Saud. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/856 "2016-10-12T12:21:50Z")
In any case this is a hijack now from the main idea of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/857 "2016-10-12T14:42:28Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Apparently likening Hillary to the devil is fairly common among certain of his followers; a couple of days ago I saw [this](https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+as+devil&biw=1252&bih=751&tbm=isch&imgil=e1X-PNFYlG7BXM%253A%253Bk67A9woOeOAgtM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Flockerdome.com%25252Flibertyunyielding%25252F7495009117153556&source=iu&pf=m&fir=e1X-PNFYlG7BXM%253A%252Ck67A9woOeOAgtM%252C_&usg=__rHKhi3cT-quRYa-wg2Iz6vdzRSs%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjw3dTDjdTPAhVnylQKHZMPCQIQyjcIMA&ei=ppD9V_DyMOeU0wKTn6QQ#imgrc=e1X-PNFYlG7BXM%3A) in a photo of a Trump rally being carried as a sign by a Trump supporter. > > It does seem unhinged. I stumbled across comments on a conservative site linked in a thread on the boards and they referred to her as Hitlery. You can hate all you want, but in what way is she like Hitler?? Funny too how he harps on how Hillary was negative about Obama during the campaign in 2008 and is now a fan of Obama. Apparently Trump donated to Hillary’s campaign in 2008 and said she would make a great president. Things change all around. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/858 "2016-10-12T15:18:47Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I stumbled across comments on a conservative site linked in a thread on the boards and they referred to her as Hitlery. You can hate all you want, but in what way is she like Hitler?? Hitlery, Killery, Hil-lie-ry…the right wing is fond of cute punny names for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/859 "2016-10-12T15:33:59Z")
Hell, I’ve been hearing “Hitlery” since 1993. Y’all so do need to keep up! 😉 Anyway, whenever somebody spouts that, I generally respond with a “1995 called - they want their memes back. Next time, try harder.” or “20 years and that’s what ya got, recycled 1995 insults? Really? You couldn’t even come up with ‘Her Royal Clintoness’ or something, some pun off her initials?” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/860 "2016-10-12T16:54:59Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I guess you’re in his/her camp too. Adaher specifically said he wasn’t talking about all Muslims but that the Saudi and Qatari governments supported radical Islam. I don’t know enough about Qatar to support that point, but the Saudi government undoubtedly does exactly that. When will _any_ US administration “git tuff” with Saudi Arabia? As much as they deserve it, they’ve got oil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=44)