# \*\*\* SDMB Live coverage, VP Debate. 10/04/2016 \*\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354 "2016-10-01T13:33:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/261 "2016-10-05T15:40:14Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I didn’t watch the debate but I’ve really enjoyed the recap here. Thanks to all who suffered through for the rest of us. > > Question: will this debate MATTER AT ALL with respect to the election? IMHO: I doubt it. Nobody bases their vote on the qualities of the VP, and especially of the VP debate. You all remember how Vice President Bentsen wiped the floor with that pipsqueak Dan Quayle, right? Plus: I haven’t seen the numbers but I doubt the debate got half the viewers of the first presidential debate. Tempest in a teapot, relatively. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/262 "2016-10-05T16:05:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > And here’s the utterly predictable Clinton ad: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/783645247247114240) > > I suspect this kind of thing will dominate the post-debate coverage, because there’s only so many hours to be filled by Kaine being mildly dickish. Or the hurricane will hit and the whole thing will get ignored. Yeah, I’ll take that “loss”. The Clinton campaign is playing Trump/Pence like a fiddle. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/263 "2016-10-05T16:10:26Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Plus: I haven’t seen the numbers but I doubt the debate got half the viewers of the first presidential debate. Tempest in a teapot, relatively. I would have thought the same but it looks like it’s going to be a little over a half. 40 to 50 million viewers compared to the 84 million the first debate got. [http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1251MK](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1251MK) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/264 "2016-10-05T16:25:34Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > i was waiting for a “are you speaking of the trump foundation that just had the new york state shut it down” response. why, oh why, was that not mentioned. Because it is a much better thing to brought up directly to Trump in the next debate. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/265 "2016-10-05T16:57:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It does seem that Kaine was trying to help Clinton, and succeeded, whereas Pence was trying to help Pence, and also succeeded. I didn’t watch the debate, but from what I’ve read that’s the impression that I got. It might not move the polls any, but this was a chance for the Trump campaign to recover at least a little from their terrible week last week, but the only campaign that was helped was Pence’s 2020 campaign. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The most prominent reminders will be rolled out in campaign advertisements: > > **Trump:** _(says thus-and-such)_ > **Pence:** Donald Trump never said _(thus-and-such)_ > > Geez, the Donald has enough messianic delusions already without a chief disciple loudly declaring “I know not the man!” I’m sure that Kaine was coached to go on the offensive, and that while debate performance was important that it was equally important to get sound bites for ads, since those will be playing long after we’ve stopped thinking about the VP debate. What I really want to know is if Pence was coached, and if so was he coached to deny things Trump said? We know Trump didn’t prepare, but I’m guessing Pence did, but maybe not with Trump campaign people. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/266 "2016-10-05T17:33:48Z")
It may be that the best way to defend Trump’s remarks is to suggest they never occurred. I mean, really, what is Pence going to actually say on the substance of the Machado thing? Or Trump’s comments on Judge Curiel? Surely, it’s better to just try to insulate the base from damage from them by suggesting they never happened. They may not have happened in the Fox bubble. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/267 "2016-10-05T17:40:08Z")
The New York Times finally whips out that Mexican thing: > **[‘That Mexican Thing’ Takes On Life After the Debate (Published 2016)](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/06/us/politics/that-mexican-thing.html)** > > “You’ve whipped out that Mexican thing again,” Gov. Mike Pence told Senator Tim Kaine, launching a new phrase into the online political conversation. I think most traditional news sites were slow to acknowledge it because it sounds sleazy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/268 "2016-10-05T19:32:09Z")
[Pretty sure this is “that Mexican Thing” Pence kept talking about.](http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cVMAAMXQyY1TRNB-/s-l400.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/269 "2016-10-05T20:00:39Z")
Missed the debate; glad to read about it here. Did Pence’s gay rights, guns, abortion or tobacco views come up? Do you think Kaine attacked him effectively on them, if so? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/270 "2016-10-05T20:05:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Missed the debate; glad to read about it here. Did Pence’s gay rights, guns, abortion or tobacco views come up? Do you think Kaine attacked him effectively on them, if so? The only thing they really discussed on Pence’s hit list was Syrian refugees and abortion. I thought Kaine was effective on abortion, but he didn’t go after the crazy Pence stuff like requiring funerals for aborted fetuses. He just attacked the general idea of imposing religious morals on women, and Trump’s call for punishment of women. The refugee conversation was rushed and a wash, I think. Pence claimed that the court only ruled against him because there hadn’t been an attack by refugees yet, but that there will be. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/271 "2016-10-05T20:29:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Missed the debate; glad to read about it here. Did Pence’s gay rights, guns, abortion or tobacco views come up? Do you think Kaine attacked him effectively on them, if so? It felt to me that each candidate was there entirely as a surrogate for their running mate. The only time their personal views were expressed was on the question regarding conflicts between their faith and their job. Which, by the way, Kaine answered; Pence deflected (he talked about his faith but not about any conflict). And which also, by the way, was the only exchange where they didn’t talk over each other. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/272 "2016-10-05T20:33:54Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I didn’t watch the debate but I’ve really enjoyed the recap here. Thanks to all who suffered through for the rest of us. > > Question: will this debate MATTER AT ALL with respect to the election? It _could_ matter if there’s enough talk–enough to get to Trump–about how many Republicans wish the ticket could be “Pence/Trump” and about how much better Trump’s next debate performance could be if he’d study tapes of Pence’s debate and about how Pence is a lock for the 2020 GOP nomination. Trump will be bothered by all of this. Bothered a _lot_. It could provoke him to do…something interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/273 "2016-10-05T21:14:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Pretty sure this is “that Mexican Thing” Pence kept talking about.](http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cVMAAMXQyY1TRNB-/s-l400.jpg) ¡ES HORA DE GOLPEAR! I still can’t wait to see how Trump screws up the town hall debate, but this should tide me over nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/274 "2016-10-05T21:34:17Z")
I turned off the debate about 40 minutes in. Also, I don’t do the Twitter thing. So, tell me – did the Big League Truth Team actually come out with some fact “checks”? I’m assuming the whole point of the BLTT is to retweet pearls of wisdom from Don the Con or his campaign staff – just wondering if there was a lot of that. Also, it didn’t occur to me until today – is the name of this faux fact-checking team supposed to be evidence that Trump does not say “bigly,” but says “big league”? (I didn’t think of that before because I was too busy thinking that “Big League Truth Team” sounds like something a fourth-grade teacher would come up with when trying to get her students to research stuff.) ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/275 "2016-10-05T21:36:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Did Pence’s gay rights, guns, abortion or tobacco views come up? That did come up later that night on The Daily Show. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/276 "2016-10-05T21:57:53Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The most prominent reminders will be rolled out in campaign advertisements: > > **Trump:** _(says thus-and-such)_ > **Pence:** Donald Trump never said _(thus-and-such)_ > > Geez, the Donald has enough messianic delusions already without a chief disciple loudly declaring “I know not the man!” \ ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/277 "2016-10-05T22:22:23Z")
I think “that Mexican thing” is a completely manufactured soundbite that doesn’t actually make sense and it’s kinda cringey to me. He wasn’t referring to a Mexican person or being disparaging or insensitive by saying it. Imagine if there was a repeated issue of an incident with Russia or ISIS brought up, and he said “you’re bringing up that Russian thing again” or “you’re bringing up that ISIS thing again” - not offensive, right? So then why is “that Mexican thing”? If he was referring to a person as “that Mexican” maybe it would be more offensive, but this sounds like manufactured out-of-context soundbite forcing similar to what Republicans do all the time. And Democrats should be above that. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/278 "2016-10-05T22:31:05Z")
My reaction to “you’ve whipped out that Mexican thing again” is that it’s offensive because it’s dismissive of the many people appalled by Trump’s ‘announcement/rapists’ and "Judge Curiel’ remarks. The phrase conveys contempt for the concept that Trump was out of line, and implicitly, for the people who believe he was out of line. Such contempt is, at best, insensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/279 "2016-10-05T22:41:23Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I think “that Mexican thing” is a completely manufactured soundbite that doesn’t actually make sense and it’s kinda cringey to me. He wasn’t referring to a Mexican person or being disparaging or insensitive by saying it. Imagine if there was a repeated issue of an incident with Russia or ISIS brought up, and he said “you’re bringing up that Russian thing again” or “you’re bringing up that ISIS thing again” - not offensive, right? So then why is “that Mexican thing”? > > If he was referring to a person as “that Mexican” maybe it would be more offensive, but this sounds like manufactured out-of-context soundbite forcing similar to what Republicans do all the time. And Democrats should be above that. He appeared to be dismissing Mexicans and the things that Trump has said about them as insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354/280 "2016-10-05T22:58:56Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I think “that Mexican thing” is a completely manufactured soundbite that doesn’t actually make sense and it’s kinda cringey to me. One of the first comments in this very thread was: “Over/under on when Kaine bursts into Spanish, just because he can? I say less than five minutes.” I think Pence prepared “that Mexican thing” as a chide to Kaine using Spanish as his only gimmick, though the place Pence found to stick it in was not-the-right-context cringey. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-vp-debate-10-04-2016/767354.md?page=15)