# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/201 "2008-11-03T18:17:33Z")
> [@NaturalBlondChap](#): > > Would it be worth entering into some discussion as to what roles signify a disruptive influence that is trying to bring the board down aka scum. Please elaborate. Specifically, who benefits and how? ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/202 "2008-11-03T18:19:44Z")
I would assume the Chicago Reader staff are the doctors / detectives / similar roles, no? I really _hope_ we have someone with investigative capacities and that said capacities include finding out a player’s alignment, otherwise we’re screwed… ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/203 "2008-11-03T18:27:16Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > I’m not sure any of this is useful, at this point, except to see who’s talking, and maybe establish data points for later evaluation. Quite right…but unless someone wants to step and say “I disagree, and I’m going to respond that same way from every one of my accounts”, it’s pretty much all we’re got right now. Anyway, here’s my wild-ass guesses/talking points/random thoughts/data points for later evaluation: [ul] [li]Very powerful roles, only one or two in the game: Becil Madams, Ned Gotti, Terry[/li][li]Power Roles: Administator, Moderator[/li][li]Multiple players have these roles: Members and Charter Members[/li][li]I’m lumping together Guest, Junior Mod, Celebrity, Mafia Player, Feuder, Politico and SDSAB in a category I call “meaningless names added to take up space in the potential roster”. No more than one or two are actually in the game.[/li][li]I don’t believe we have a “Technician” – Terry _is_ the Technician, isn’t he?[/li][li]I don’t believe the “Hacker” is necessarily scum. Very well could be, but that’s a very loose term.[/li][li]In all likelihood, Troll, Sock Puppet and Jerk _are_ scum. Yes, there could be a pro-town Jerk, or a PFK Sock Puppet, but I’ll lean towards these three being the scum. Outside chance that Pit Dweller is one of them as well.[/li][li]Along with them, it seems we have at least semi-confirmation that Mark Wit is scum.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/204 "2008-11-03T18:40:44Z")
Also keep in mind that (based on opening flavor) there at least 3, possibly 4 factions in the game. Town, Mafia, and 2 others. They might be working together (like SK and backup), or it might be a two separate factions, like a SK and a Survivor. Mafia are catchable, but individual roles are a pain to catch, since there’s nothing stopping them from just being as townie as possible. I’d like to point out that speculating on the make up of the roles is probably not beneficial to the town right now. It runs the risk of power roles slipping and saying too much, and gives the scum some ideas of what is claimable and what is not. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/205 "2008-11-03T18:48:49Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > I’m not sure any of this is useful, at this point, except to see who’s talking, and maybe establish data points for later evaluation. Um…that is useful. Very useful, in fact. Actually, considering that we’re only a couple hours into the first day, that’s enough for a vote for me (beats random voting) **Ban Rapier42** > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > It seems pretty obvious that a lot of these roles won’t be used. I doubt breaking them down early into pro-Town and anti-Town factions going to be of much use, unless we’re looking at doing a mass-reveal. > > On that note, I’m a little leery of the mass reveal in a game with no Dusk time. We’ll certainly have objections (from both scum,and from cautious townies), and the mass reveal is of limited use if we end up with half the town revealed, and the scum getting a Night to discuss their reactions to the reveal. > Ummm… in other news, just as a friendly way to welcome JSex back to the ranks of the players: > > **Ban JSexton** It could just be that the scum could talk during the day. **O mighty Og, are the scum allowed to talk during the day?** Worth a shot. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/206 "2008-11-03T18:50:35Z")
> [@NaturalBlondChap](#): > > Scum > Sock Puppet > Troll > Hacker > Jerk > > **NBC** Snipped and bolding mine.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/207 "2008-11-03T18:56:37Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Um…that is useful. Very useful, in fact. You too. Seriously, please elaborate. How exactly is it useful, and to whom? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/208 "2008-11-03T19:04:59Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > You too. Seriously, please elaborate. How exactly is it useful, and to whom? In order for the game to work right, we need to get discussion started. The more evidence we have, the easier it is to sort the scummy from the townie. Day 1, though, there’s not too much to talk about. So almost any topic (with the exception of against the rules stuff, fluff, and metagamey stuff) is definitely a good thing. This is the basic principle behind random voting as well (though I think it’s better to have a shaky reason than no reason at all on day one). ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/209 "2008-11-03T19:20:52Z")
How does that statement relate to your vote? **Rapier** has expressed what I think is a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town. You claim to want discussion, but immediately vote on someone who disagrees with your choice of subject. How do you feel about **Hal** and **Jsexton**? They also expressed a similar concern. I think it is weird how you and **NaturalBlondChap** don’t seem to have any reservations about the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/210 "2008-11-03T19:23:41Z")
I’m not to keen on the “random vote”-strategy. But I have been thinking about a random-lurker-vote-strategy for this game. If the Days are to end without any notice… I don’t like the thought of my vote being wasted. It still early in the Day - so I’m not going to vote straight away. But I just might do a random-lurker-vote with in the next 24 hours… ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/211 "2008-11-03T19:23:51Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > A regular scum group of trolls, hackers and jerks, and a second one of Chicago Reader staff? Jerry, Ed and Cecil only make three, unless this Mark Witt guy is somehow related to CL or the Reader. It seems more likely to me that they’d be PFKs rather than a true second scum group. what’s a PFK? ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/212 "2008-11-03T19:27:53Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > I’m not to keen on the “random vote”-strategy. But I have been thinking about a random-lurker-vote-strategy for this game. > If the Days are to end without any notice… I don’t like the thought of my vote being wasted. > It still early in the Day - so I’m not going to vote straight away. But I just might do a random-lurker-vote with in the next 24 hours… What else do we have to go on? Get the random votes in, then the fun starts, we get wagons, people derailing wagons etc and we have something to work with tomorrow. **Ban Hero from Sector 7G** for no particular reason ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/213 "2008-11-03T19:34:42Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > What else do we have to go on? Get the random votes in, then the fun starts, we get wagons, people derailing wagons etc and we have something to work with tomorrow. _lol_ I just don’t believe that scum ever DO a random vote - they know to well how to place a vote! So IMHO random votes are for town and making it easy for us to be pushed in the directiong scum wants us to go. But if **JSEXTON** is right and we might have 3 (or even 4) factions in this game I would believe random-votes are not that bad for town. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/214 "2008-11-03T19:35:25Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > How does that statement relate to your vote? **Rapier** has expressed what I think is a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town. You claim to want discussion, but immediately vote on someone who disagrees with your choice of subject. > > How do you feel about **Hal** and **Jsexton**? They also expressed a similar concern. > > I think it is weird how you and **NaturalBlondChap** don’t seem to have any reservations about the topic. And the vote generates more discussion–you disagree with it. Why? What will Rapier say? etc. And how could it help the scum? All we’re trying to do is figure out which roles go where. If someone slips doing that, that sort of slip would have happened pretty much regardless of topic. If you think there’s a more important topic, what? It’s not like these are immobile assumptions–if someone claims Administrator or Guest, we’re not going to automatically assume that person is town–even if they are that role. Hal hasn’t expressed that concern. And I disagree with Jsexton as well: it’s just that Rapier42 sounded scummier when he said that. And I’m not buddying up with NaturalBlondChap either–I’m suspicious of him until inclined otherwise–but I think that he had an interesting idea and I ran with it. :shrugs: ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/215 "2008-11-03T19:38:09Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > How do you feel about **Hal** and **Jsexton**? They also expressed a similar concern. Not really…here’s what I said: > [@](#): > > Quite right…but unless someone wants to step and say “I disagree, and I’m going to respond that same way from every one of my accounts”, it’s pretty much all we’re got right now. Don’t focus so much on the “Quite right” as the “…but […] it’s pretty much all we’re got right now”. > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > what’s a PFK? “Playing For Keeps”. It stems from roles in the off-board Batman game which were neither town nor scum, but were rather trying to fill a third-party objective in order to get a win on their own. And damnit…I was _SO_ close! ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/216 "2008-11-03T19:39:25Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > In order for the game to work right, we need to get discussion started. The more evidence we have, the easier it is to sort the scummy from the townie. Day 1, though, there’s not too much to talk about. So almost any topic (with the exception of against the rules stuff, fluff, and metagamey stuff) is definitely a good thing. This is the basic principle behind random voting as well (though I think it’s better to have a shaky reason than no reason at all on day one). Discussion is good. Discussion that leads to handing information to scum is bad. Voting to ban pedescribe is totally awesome. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/217 "2008-11-03T19:42:33Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > But if **JSEXTON** is right and we might have 3 (or even 4) factions in this game I would believe random-votes are not that bad for town. This is what I’m basing that on, if it wasn’t clear: > [@da mod](#): > > You were joined by others around the world in professing your loyalty towards the dope, and expressing your willingness to do what you could to maintain its safety. Others cheered on the new regime, and joined forces to ensure it was here to stay. Some of you would be relying purely on reasoning and logic, but several individuals knew they had some extra ability to help their cause. > > Elsewhere, two individuals sat quietly, separately considering their options. Each didn’t want the new regime nor the old, rather they had different things in mind. The time was right to strike. I read that as town and mafia in the first paragraph, and two individual factions (possibly united, but probably not) in the second. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/218 "2008-11-03T19:52:12Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Discussion is good. Discussion that leads to handing information to scum is bad. Voting to ban pedescribe is totally awesome. So, what do you think we could end up giving away to the scum? If we come to a consensus that, say, Charter Member is an unlikely role, the scum might avoid claiming it due to fears that it will look suspicious, or they might deliberately claim it to avoid a counterclaim. That we’ve determined it would seem to have no significant benefits for one side. And as for power roles outing themselves–well, that could happen no matter what we talk about. I don’t see it significantly more likely from discussing which roles might be in the game than, say, piling onto a hapless Ned Gotti. I’m not saying we’re going to find some magic answer if we pursue this line of thought. All I’m saying is that it’s suspicious for someone to close off various avenues of discussion and then dismiss the information aspect. I suppose, though, that it could have been a rookie mistake. Alright. I’ll **Unvote Rapier42** for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/219 "2008-11-03T19:57:00Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Don’t worry too much about it heck we don’t even need to go the rest of the season. Just put it up when you think about it. > > As for the game, I haven’t quite figured out how the flexible days will effect the game. I figure last minute voting will disappear but these first random votes count much more. I’m going to hole off my first vote until tomorrow and will be voting for anyone who hasn’t posted first and secondly anyone who hasn’t voted. > > I dislike random voting because it takes away accountability and if someone connectivity goes away with a random on the table the day could end before they can get back to change it. > > So Blam what is your take on these variations? Hurray, first post of the game and someone is already asking for my thoughts. 😃 I agree that the flexible Day length will put an interesting spin on things, but there’s a few things to keep in mind that we can use to our advantage. First, we have a definite lower bound. Second, we have no reason to believe that anyone has any information about the length of the Days. To address the first point, we can remove most of the disadvantage to the town that is involved with an unsure Day length by treating the lower bound on the Days as the end of the Day. That is, on Day One, it’d probably be a good idea to have no unjustified votes after the initial 48 hour period. It would also generally be good to try to have votes from everyone by that period. After that, discussions can and should still be encouraged, but without knowing where the Day ends, we don’t have the “OMG, the Day ends in 2 hours and we need more votes”. Instead, we get the initial votes and continue discussion and let things changes as they will, because any sudden vote swing is as likely to get nipped early or allowed to swing back toward someone else as it is to stick and end quickly. The second point is mostly related to finding scum. Scum won’t be able to push a poorly reasoned train or fail to respond to it because they’ll have no idea whether it will wash over or if they’ll have to remain silent and hope the Day ends quickly or risk looking like they were avoiding it if the Day goes long. Of course, it’s possible that the scum have a power that would give them that information, but I doubt it. Beside the fact that it’s VERY overpowered because they’d have a enormous amount of sway by being able to effect momentum of different votes swings to get them in a good place at the right time. OTOH, if they DO have a power like that, it may reveal itself through Perfect Information. So, all in all, I think it’s neutral at worst, and possibly in town’s favor at best. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/220 "2008-11-03T19:57:50Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > I would assume the Chicago Reader staff are the doctors / detectives / similar roles, no? I really _hope_ we have someone with investigative capacities and that said capacities include finding out a player’s alignment, otherwise we’re screwed… You have no faith in our collective scum-finding abilities through vote and text analysis? For shame. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I’m against random voting in general. It can be useful for jump starting discussion, but we seem to have that going now. The bad thing about random voting is that it leaves no justification. We need players to give _reasons_ why they vote. First, when you’re dead and turn up Town, we can go back and see what you were thinking. We’ll get the perspective a player we can trust. Second, if you’re dead and turn up scum, we can try to figure out what manipulations you were up to. So, please, always clearly state your reasons for voting. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I think this setup does not lend itself to a mass claim. We have both vanilla and pro-Town power roles, so a truthful reveal by Townies hurts us a lot. I don’t think it’s worth it for the lies we’ll be forcing the scum to tell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=12)