# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/241 "2008-11-03T21:18:00Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > I suppose, though, that it could have been a **rookie mistake**. Alright. I’ll > **Unvote Rapier42** > for the moment. Bolding mine. I guess I better clear this up right now. I would have earlier, except I thought that NAF outing me was sufficient. I’m KidV on the offboard, management here hasn’t gotten around to changing my name over for me yet. I apologise for the confusion. Regarding Day One discussion - I’m in favor of it, I thought I made that clear. Yes, we run the risk of power roles outing themselves, which is balanced by the chance of scum outing themselves. If we _don’t_ talk, we get no info whatsoever. Until we have the opportunity to evaluate a given players’ scumminess, talking about game setup is better than nothing. And speaking of evaluating a given players scumminess… Ped, you’re pinging me already. You’ve misrepresented me, pulled your vote back under _very_ little pressure, and smudged NBC, and we’re less than a small-d day into the game. Since we’re voting early, **Ban Pedescribe**. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/242 "2008-11-03T21:36:28Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > I spent at least a good three to four minutes thinking about it, and if the scum think I’m worth killing, then it will (hopefully) protect some of our more powerful roles. I’m not too worried about it, especially since the mechanism I speak of probably won’t happen but maybe 20% of the time. 20%? Well, I have a guess about what you’re referring to. Kind of a ‘win-more’ bonus power? In any event, if your role really is Board Doctor, then we’re a little disadvantaged by the fact that our doc isn’t a protective role, but a discussion prolonger. I don’t really see the advantage you’ve given us by role revealing this early, even if your power is of mediocre utility. I think it’s unlikely you’re lying about your rolename, but even if everything is as you say it is, what possible benefit do you think you’ve given the town by coming out now? And you _can_ see the bennies for scum by allowing a half-assed role reveal, allowing the ‘true’ power role pool to shrink, yes? ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/243 "2008-11-03T21:39:41Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > As we’re at the beginning of the game, our concern now should be with the risk that a Day ends with less than ten votes cast. Does the “less than ten votes” refer to something in the rules? Or are you just saying that hypothetically? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/244 "2008-11-03T21:45:40Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’m sorry, but I have to say I don’t see the logic here in this move. I would make a suggestion that you try to keep that which you left ambiguous unconfirmed. The precise value of killing you cannot be calculated without knowing whether or not you know the current deadline, what conditions are required to allow you to extend it, and by how much you can extend it. > > However, I am willing to say that, as boneheaded as I think this is, that I also think that it’s unlikely to be scum motivated. Well, I can see it being more helpful to Town (assuming it’s a Town power in fact, and that the conditions which are left undefined are met) if we know that it’s an option. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/245 "2008-11-03T21:54:57Z")
@ **ok11** > [@Rapier42](#): > > I’m not sure any of this is useful Legitimate concern. > [@](#): > > …at this point, except to see who’s talking, and maybe establish data points for later evaluation. > [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Quite right.. Hal agreeing. – If you are going to accuse people of “putting words in their mouth” when interpreting other people’s posts this is going to be a very quiet game. Admittedly, my reading wasn’t completely accurate, as **Hal Briston** later clarified. My apologies to **Hal**. However, I sincerely believe that it is important for players to give their feelings on subjects and will continue to do so. – My point remains valid, I didn’t think **pedescribe** ’s position was beneficial to us. I didn’t necessarily think it was scummy, just a bad tactic. However, it seemed weird when **ped** jumped on someone who disagreed and justified it with a desire to promote discussion. > [@pedescribe](#): > > I suppose, though, that it could have been a rookie mistake. Alright. I’ll > Unvote Rapier42 > for the moment. a rookie mistake? We have evidence that there is some bastard modding going on (concealed roles, unannounced day end) and _you_ are accusing the people who want to err on the side of caution as rookies?? There are other avenues to promote discussion that aren’t also fishing trips. ban pedescribe ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/246 "2008-11-03T21:55:33Z")
Vote Count: 3: Pedescribe (Jsexton, Rapier42, Hero from Sector G) 1: Hero from Sector 7G (OAOW) 1: Jsexton (Boozahol) ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/247 "2008-11-03T22:03:54Z")
I’m so torn here. I want to move my vote, but my desires to catch out the first-time-player-scum-third-vote-is-a-scumtell and my desires to leap onto a lynch-train gathering steam. Four votes on a player is a little much when we don’t know if there’s more than one day left in this Day, and I don’t know how much I really buy the third vote deal, even if it does seem to hold some water when the vote is placed by a new player. I’ll **Unban: JaySexy** for now, though. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/248 "2008-11-03T22:12:46Z")
He’s not a new player - he said he’s somebody else on the offboards. (I’ve never played there, so I don’t know him, but people may have missed that.) ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/249 "2008-11-03T22:14:42Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > He’s not a new player - he said he’s somebody else on the offboards. (I’ve never played there, so I don’t know him, but people may have missed that.) The third vote on Pedescribe was **Hero from Sector 7G** , who I think is a new player. Awesome username, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/250 "2008-11-03T22:17:54Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I’ve never played there … NETA - why not? The current game is wrapping up, signups are open on the next one. Come play! ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/251 "2008-11-03T22:18:12Z")
Ohh, sorry. Yeah, I don’t know him from Adam. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/252 "2008-11-03T22:19:12Z")
NETA - Hell, no. I have to eat and sleep some time. And sometimes at work people actually expect me _work_, believe it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/253 "2008-11-03T22:20:55Z")
Thanks! – I’m comfortable with being vote 3. My reading of the rules suggests that it is mere vote majority at cutoff time, so we don’t have to worry about quick-lynches and pile-ons. **Rapier** , you have read the vote count and your vote has not moved, which in my mind lends your vote equal weight as mine. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/254 "2008-11-03T22:35:40Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > These sorts of comments always rub me the wrong way. Agreeing with someone is not necessarily “buddying up” with him. It’s the fact that you seemed compelled to distance yourself from him that I find curious. However, I’m not sure what to think of it at this point, especially since it’s been a while since I’ve played with you, but it’s a datapoint nonetheless. I feel compelled to distance myself from him because Hero from Sector 7G, in post #209, implied that we were connected. We aren’t. > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Discussing things is fine. However, at this point, with the available evidence, I cannot see how it benefits the town, but there is a possibility that it benefits the scum. Further, there are plenty of other avenues that we can pursue that will stimulate discussion without giving away information, like discussion about the setup. Fair enough. I’m just incredibly wary of people trying to keep everyone from a certain topic. And I’ve really said all that I noticed already, so I won’t be bringing it up again. > [@Rapier42](#): > > Bolding mine. I guess I better clear this up right now. I would have earlier, except I thought that NAF outing me was sufficient. I’m KidV on the offboard, management here hasn’t gotten around to changing my name over for me yet. I apologise for the confusion. > > Regarding Day One discussion - I’m in favor of it, I thought I made that clear. Yes, we run the risk of power roles outing themselves, which is balanced by the chance of scum outing themselves. If we _don’t_ talk, we get no info whatsoever. Until we have the opportunity to evaluate a given players’ scumminess, talking about game setup is better than nothing. > > And speaking of evaluating a given players scumminess… Ped, you’re pinging me already. You’ve misrepresented me, pulled your vote back under _very_ little pressure, and smudged NBC, and we’re less than a small-d day into the game. > > Since we’re voting early, **Ban Pedescribe**. Wow I feel like an idiot. Okay, sorry I talked down to you. That was unecessary and rude, and I’ll remember name descriptions next time I play! I pulled my vote back because it was rash, not because I was pressured. It was a weak vote, but there was talk of vote early and vote often, so I did. I’ve already addressed the NBC thing earlier. > [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > My point remains valid, I didn’t think **pedescribe** ’s position was beneficial to us. I didn’t necessarily think it was scummy, just a bad tactic. However, it seemed weird when **ped** jumped on someone who disagreed and justified it with a desire to promote discussion. > > a rookie mistake? We have evidence that there is some bastard modding going on (concealed roles, unannounced day end) and _you_ are accusing the people who want to err on the side of caution as rookies?? There are other avenues to promote discussion that aren’t also fishing trips. > > ban pedescribe It was an idiotic thing to say. But I don’t like to err on the side of caution. From my experience, it leads to losses. For example: In the Gastard Mod game, some people floated the idea of revealing the sent roles. They didn’t. Town lost, to a role that was a heavily tweaked version of one sent in. Perhaps the extra info wouldn’t have helped the town, but it could have. In YSI, there was worry about revealing the Dossiers, thinking that there was some sort of hidden trap. They revealed them anyway. The very next day, the revelations trapped a scum. In T2, the town was cautious over lynching NAF1138, because they thought he might be the Jester. Instead, they lynched…the jester. From what I see, being cautious opens us up to manipulation by the scum. As for who I’m suspicious of now; I’ll do a reread after dinner and see what I see. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/255 "2008-11-03T22:37:46Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Thanks! > > – > > I’m comfortable with being vote 3. My reading of the rules suggests that it is mere vote majority at cutoff time, so we don’t have to worry about quick-lynches and pile-ons. **Rapier** , you have read the vote count and your vote has not moved, which in my mind lends your vote equal weight as mine. The problem isn’t reaching some arbitrary number of votes. It’s that the third vote is kind of a floodgate vote. One or two votes on a player mostly get ignored. Vote three is the point that tips someone into real danger of being a lynch candidate. Someone on another online mafia site came up with a mathematical model that showed third voters were disproportionately scum. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/256 "2008-11-03T22:42:50Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > That said, I am more wary of a random vote in this game precisely because we don’t know if it will remain a random vote or not. Someone could random vote, intend to do a real one, and then the Day ends early and we’re stuck with a worthless vote. I’ll put more thought into this, but I imagine that by the time I’ve come to a conclusion, there will be enough information in the thread that a purely random vote is no longer justifiable. Note, though, that a random vote here is no worse than no vote at all in this scenario. > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > In any event, if your role really is Board Doctor, then we’re a little disadvantaged by the fact that our doc isn’t a protective role, but a discussion prolonger. I don’t really see the advantage you’ve given us by role revealing this early, even if your power is of mediocre utility. Don’t panic. There’s no reason to think we don’t have a true protective role, be it Bodyguard, “Doc”, or something else entirely. > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > The problem isn’t reaching some arbitrary number of votes. It’s that the third vote is kind of a floodgate vote. One or two votes on a player mostly get ignored. Vote three is the point that tips someone into real danger of being a lynch candidate. Someone on another online mafia site came up with a mathematical model that showed third voters were disproportionately scum. Do I know you? I don’t recall playing with you before, and your handle rings no bells, but it certainly feels like you know who I am. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/257 "2008-11-03T22:53:19Z")
@Squid\> Again, as of this moment I am not moving my vote. The only way I know how to play this game is to question players and put pressure on them, and I use my vote to emphasize my words. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/258 "2008-11-03T22:56:59Z")
Confusion abounds! > [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Thanks! > > – > > I’m comfortable with being vote 3. My reading of the rules suggests that it is mere vote majority at cutoff time, so we don’t have to worry about quick-lynches and pile-ons. **Rapier** , you have read the vote count and your vote has not moved, which in my mind lends your vote equal weight as mine. The “third vote = scum tell” meme comes from before I started playing. In early games here, folks contended that the third vote was more likely to be scum-motivated than others. Thats since been discarded, because once it’s known, the trend is open to manipulation. Boozy was observing that in your case, it’s valid because as a newcomer to these here parts, you wouldn’t have been aware that the trend (if it exists) was exposed. I didn’t ever agree with him on that, I was just pointing out to Zsofia that you were the third vote, not me. > [@pedescribe](#): > > Wow I feel like an idiot. Okay, sorry I talked down to you. That was unecessary and rude, and I’ll remember name descriptions next time I play! Oh, no worries, I didn’t feel like you were condescending me at all. But comparison of current and previous game play is a valid tool, and I would have felt dishonest to let you continue thinking I was a new player. > [@JSexton](#): > > Do I know you? I don’t recall playing with you before, and your handle rings no bells, but it certainly feels like you know who I am. Maybe his posting style is i **dio** matic? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/259 "2008-11-03T23:18:00Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Maybe his posting style is i **dio** matic? Snipped. Well I was going to say more along the lines of i **dio** syncratic. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/260 "2008-11-03T23:28:00Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You have no faith in our collective scum-finding abilities through vote and text analysis? For shame. Yeah, that worked really well the last time I played 😛 And yikes, I don’t know _what_ to do with **Santo** ’s claim; if this were a remotely normal game, I’d be inclined to believe it, since it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for scum to draw attention to themselves right off the bat, especially with a role that invites a counterclaim. But then again, this is not a remotely normal game, and for all we know there could be a Suicide Bomber role or God knows what else… I can already tell this game is going to make my head hurt :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=14)