# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/321 "2008-11-04T16:49:11Z")
I’m not sure why the masons have already started to crawl out of the woodwork, as it’s my understanding that they are most useful later in the game. I’m a little suspicious of Squid, just because I agree that there’s not a lot being said there - but there’s not a lot being said ANYWHERE except for the role claims. I’m putting a vote in now, although I expect to change it if the Day lasts long enough because there’s more meat to chew on with ongoing discussion now. For right now I’m voting for lurkiness just to nudge people into talking; Nanook already has a nudge vote on him, so I’ll **vote Kat**. I’ll be rereading today’s activity (can’t quite get my head in the game as I haven’t been able to really warm up since I spent two hours in the damp and chill this morning waiting to exercise the old franchise) and hopefully have some more useful comments. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/322 "2008-11-04T16:54:22Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Why is this again? I explained what I meant re: Santo’s role. Is it still because I mentioned the fact that there were two crappy vote possibilities in my mind, and I declined to vote either of them? Yeah. No-one has been particularly suspicious today, and you’ve been the most so far. Other than the lurkers. But I’m not willing to indiscriminately lynch lurkers yet, since it’s only been about 24 hours in and we don’t know how modkills will work yet. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/323 "2008-11-04T16:58:30Z")
**Zsofia, pede** claimed because the Day may end at any time and he’s on the chopping block. Do you really not understand why him claiming now would be a good idea, especially now that we know about the chain and all? > [@NaturalBlondChap](#): > > Why are you happy that your pressure has exposed a town role? (usual caveats about pedescribe and amrussel could be lying / preplanned claim etc etc etc etc) > > I could understand being happy if the pressure had caused a slip such as Pedescribe revealing some perfect knowledge. I understand that in the chaos of day one that we will end up forcing town roles to claim if they end up with a leading lynch tally, but I would not say that would be something to be happy about. Whoah, **NBC**.\*\* JSexton’ **s post was made before he read the post you are referring to. This was made obvious four minutes later when he realized there was another page; the page on which** pede \*\*claimed. Furthermore, you _had_ to have seen that post, since you also saw **amrussel** ’s post where he verified **pede** ’s claim. Methinks it wasn’t an accident. **Ban NBC** ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/324 "2008-11-04T17:05:32Z")
Nice catch. NBC was pinging me a little anyway, this is a good excuse to read back and see why. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/325 "2008-11-04T17:14:16Z")
I wasn’t really thinking about the “oh crap day might end and I could die now” aspect of the indeterminate Day. I do believe **pede** and feel that’s pretty confirmed, unless they were able to communicate and worked it out beforehand. It did out another mason, though. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/326 "2008-11-04T17:17:03Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > It did out another mason, though. That’s an inevitable consequence of lead-voting a mason in a closed game, though. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/327 "2008-11-04T17:27:43Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > That’s an inevitable consequence of lead-voting a mason in a closed game, though. Especially due to the way the Charter Members can confirm themselves in this game. If he’s targeted tonight, that information would have been lost forever. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/328 "2008-11-04T17:29:54Z")
OK, just caught up, and I have few seconds to throw some thoughts down: I am inclined to believe the **Santo** claim, and provisionally accept the **pedescribe** and **amrussell** claims. I might have taken a look at **JSexton** for riding **pedescribe** so hard, but until the claim I thought **JSexton** was right on in his suspicion of **pede** , who seemed to be flailing. I can’t say I have any real suspicions at the moment as my catch-up read was fairly quick. Nevertheless, as my posting is going to be spotty this week, I am going to throw a mostly random vote on: **Ban Hal Briston** As I say, this is mostly random, but I will say that the post where he jumped on **Blaster Master** seemed like he might have been deliberately misunderstanding and trying to manufacture suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/329 "2008-11-04T17:40:47Z")
People who have played with me should know that I don’t post much, if any, on weekends. Yesterday turned out to be a bad day for me since I had to get a couple of crowns put in. (Yes, for those of you who remember from when I started playing Mafia on this board, I am STILL doing the same series of dental work from back then. I blame my mother’s side of the family, they all have terrible teeth.) Some thoughts. A mason claim early. I gotta say I think the mason chain idea is a very neat twist on vanilla masons. And while it is possible that the scum came up with the idea themselves, that seems unlikely so we are 99% likely to have some confirmed townies already. A little early for that, but I can’t really fault Ped for claiming considering the random Day end bit. Interesting role claim by Santo. Are you trying to steal my gimmick sir? Speaking of… > [@amrussel](#): > > What’s more certain is that we still have a few lurkers, and in the interests of provoking some more involvement - and getting a vote in - I’ll > > vote Nanook of the North Shore > > I realise we still have just over 24 hours to go (minimum, obviously), but more participation is better than less. Thank you! You see, I have an…interesting role to say the least. I will not at this time be telling all of my powers, since I sure as hell don’t want the scum to find out what they are, but I do have an interesting restriction. I must have someone different vote for me every Day or I will be modkilled at the end of the Day. And to head off anyone yelling PFK at me, I am not the Joker from Batman. I do not have a killing role based on people voting for me or anything of that nature. Right now I’m inclined to vote NBC. I was Cabal with him in Conspiracy 2, and I was co-mod of T2, so I have something of a feel for when he’s scum. To me, that’s the way he’s coming across now, especially the attack on JSexton. It strikes me as an overenthusiastic scum trying to jump on something in order to push a lynch, which is something that NBC has done mistakenly before. **vote NBC** ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/330 "2008-11-04T17:47:40Z")
Huh. I’m not at all clear why NBC was on the short-list-in-my-head. He’s made a total of three posts since Dawn. 188 - wants to talk about which roles are likely to be scum, makes a list to that effect. 281 - responds to HFS7G and defends his listmaking. doesn’t want to talk about powers, just alignments. 314 - questions Jsexton, misinterprets a statement as applying to Peds roleclaim. The first two posts could go either way - could be fishing, could be honest speculation. And lets face it, Town will fish too, everybody wants info right now. The third is a little more problematic. Santo is right, the post by Jsexton that NBC attacked wasn’t referring to the role-claim at all. And since NBC referred to other posts farther down the page, he had to have seen that J missed the page break. This also could be an honest mistake. But on Day One, it’s enough to buy a vote from me. **Ban Natural Blonde Chap** ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/331 "2008-11-04T17:51:42Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Interesting role claim by Santo. Are you trying to steal my gimmick sir? Speaking of… Probably not, because I never believe you, anyway. 😛 > [@](#): > > I must have someone different vote for me every Day or I will be modkilled at the end of the Day. There’s already a vote on you now, IIRC. So, tomorrow, if I were to vote/unvote you, would that satisfy the requirement? Also, if everybody uses up their vote on you (i.e. there’s nobody “different” left to vote for you), you’ll die anyway? The only way I can see that being PFK is if it’s a Troll getting “attention”. I can’t see it being scum, if it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/332 "2008-11-04T17:57:19Z")
In my [post yesterday](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10396638&postcount=233) I said that I thought **Hero From Sector 7G** and **pedescribe** looked suspicious. I can’t say I was surprised when **pedescribe** role-claimed, because the way he’s been playing seemed to suggest (at least to me) that he was either ul scum, who tried to make lots of accusations, and see what sticks, or (b) some sort of confirmable town role, who wasn’t afraid to stick his neck out. [/ul] Either way, as the top vote-getter he’d have nothing to lose by role claiming. For now, I will believe **pedescribe** ’s (and **amrussell** ’s) CM status. I am not particularly satisfied with **Hero From Sector 7G** ’s [response](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10397095&postcount=245) to my post. He started off the game by asking (twice) why others think discussing roles is useful. However, unlike several players who were against discussing roles and explained their reasoning (e.g. **JSexton** ), he simply posed the question without offering his thoughts on this matter. After **pedescribe** voted for **Rapier42** , **Hero From Sector 7G** made the following post, which looked scummy to me: > [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > **Rapier** has expressed what I think is a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town. I interpreted this sentence to mean that **Hero From Sector 7G** thinks that **Rapier42** said discussing roles might benefit scum. What he actually said was, > [@Rapier42](#): > > I’m not sure any of this is useful, at this point, except to see who’s talking, and maybe establish data points for later evaluation. When I asked **Hero From Sector 7G** to clarify his statement (thinking that perhaps he meant to say **JSexton** instead of **Rapier** ), he reiterated that **Rapier42** ’s statement sounds like a concern. True, it sounds like a concern that the discussion is useless for town, but it does _not_ look like a concern that “at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town.” If **Rapier42** thinks that either **Hero From Sector 7G** or I (or both) interpreted his post incorrectly, hopefully he’ll let us know. Otherwise, I’ll drop it for now, and move on to the 3rd part of the post. > [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > I think it is weird how you and **NaturalBlondChap** don’t seem to have any reservations about the topic. It’s true that **NaturalBlondChap** was the one who started talking about roles. However, after him, several others (including me) speculated about the meanings of various role names, without “any reservations.” (Again, to me it seems like **Rapier42** belongs in this category, rather than the “concerned” category). Why did **Hero From Sector 7G** single-out **NBC**? It’s not much of a case, but that’s the best I’ve got. So for now, I vote that we **Ban Hero From Sector 7G** ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/333 "2008-11-04T18:08:31Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Probably not, because I never believe you, anyway. That’s ok, since I always think you’re scum. > [@](#): > > There’s already a vote on you now, IIRC. So, tomorrow, if I were to vote/unvote you, would that satisfy the requirement? Yes it would. The vote doesn’t have to stay on me, just show up on me at some point. > [@](#): > > Also, if everybody uses up their vote on you (i.e. there’s nobody “different” left to vote for you), you’ll die anyway? Yes. Of course, that’s unlikely to happen until late in the game, at which point it’s unlikely that me dying via modkill will make a huge difference one way or the other. Hopefully I will have been able to do some good things before we get to that point. > [@](#): > > The only way I can see that being PFK is if it’s a Troll getting “attention”. I can’t see it being scum, if it’s true. I can say with absolute certainly that my role is not Troll. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/334 "2008-11-04T18:08:42Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > The only way I can see that being PFK is if it’s a Troll getting “attention”. I can’t see it being scum, if it’s true. My concern is that it’s a truly horrible condition. The tightrope he’d have to walk to accomplish this _without_ claiming is nearly impossible. So, maybe a Troll on that count, in that if the condition is real it practically forces a claim. It could be something else entirely, a votecharged power or some kind of Mad Hatter. I’m not sure I like it. > [@ok11](#): > > If **Rapier42** thinks that either **Hero From Sector 7G** or I (or both) interpreted his post incorrectly, hopefully he’ll let us know. I’m fairly sure I said at some point that discussion was necessary, benefit to scum be damned. If I didn’t, I should have. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/335 "2008-11-04T18:12:43Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > My concern is that it’s a truly horrible condition. The tightrope he’d have to walk to accomplish this _without_ claiming is nearly impossible. Which is of course exactly why I did claim. I spent some time trying to figure out a way to do it without claiming and couldn’t really come up with anything that wasn’t just begging to be killed. Claiming was just the far simpler way to attack it, and actually gave me some hope of staying alive long enough to help. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/336 "2008-11-04T18:41:32Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Thank you! You see, I have an…interesting role to say the least. I will not at this time be telling all of my powers, since I sure as hell don’t want the scum to find out what they are, but I do have an interesting restriction. > > I must have someone different vote for me every Day or I will be modkilled at the end of the Day. > > And to head off anyone yelling PFK at me, I am not the Joker from Batman. I do not have a killing role based on people voting for me or anything of that nature. I’m not sure I believe you. You’re either a PFK or have one hell of a power to get a restriction like that, and given the power roles we’ve already seen, I’m disinclined to believe the latter. Though I could see something of this caliber in, say, Apocolypse or Conspiracy, where there were powerful roles balanced by vanillas/a hellouvalot of scum, the roles so far seem like the “weak bonus” powers seen in GastardMod and Batman (though that one was really both of those strategies combined). > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > **Zsofia, pede** claimed because the Day may end at any time and he’s on the chopping block. Do you really not understand why him claiming now would be a good idea, especially now that we know about the chain and all?Whoah, **NBC**.\*\* JSexton’ **s post was made before he read the post you are referring to. This was made obvious four minutes later when he realized there was another page; the page on which** pede \*\*claimed. Furthermore, you _had_ to have seen that post, since you also saw **amrussel** ’s post where he verified **pede** ’s claim. Methinks it wasn’t an accident. > > **Ban NBC** Last time I read through, I didn’t notice everything there. Specifically, JSexton’s second “whoa, a new page” comment, or NBC’s chronologically suspicious quoting. That’s enough for me to: **Unban Boozahol Squid, PI** **Ban NaturalBlondChap** ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/337 "2008-11-04T18:44:16Z")
Also, it might help to make a list of all claims: Unconfirmed Claims: Santo Rugger–Terry–Can extend day given right conditions. Nanook–No name given–No powers given, drawback is that he has to have a different person vote for him each day or die. Semi-Confirmed Claims: pedescribe–Charter Member–Masonish, knows amrussel is a Charter Member amrussel–Charter Member–Masonish, knows someone is a Charter Member Death Confirmed Claims: -None yet- ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/338 "2008-11-04T18:47:56Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > OK, Charter Member status. I am, indeed, a Charter Member. I too recognise one other Charter Member. Unfortunately, that person is not **pedescribe** but someone else. **I am not saying pedescribe is lying**. His description of the role is entirely accurate. What I believe to be the case is that each CM recognises one other, but this relationship is not reciprocal. E.g. If we have three Charter Members then A–\>B–\>C–\>A, where –\> means recognises. > > Therefore, there should be at least one other Charter Member/mason who can confirm **pedescribe**. I can give the name I recognise, but I’m reluctant to jump the gun as this will basically force a mass mason role-claim, which may not be in our best interests. I suspect that the third person will not have anyone at all to confirm. I’ve seen that set up before. Think about it this way: if the third person could confirm pedescribe, then it’s basically a standard masonry. If the third person is simply trusted by you, and nothing else, then it creates a more interesting situation. It also would mean that pedescribe is not 100% cleared, but it’s enough to make me unban pedescribe for now. That also means that the identity of the third dies with you. We’ll need to get it sorted out before we get to lynch or lose, but there’s plenty of time for that later. > [@NaturalBlondChap](#): > > Why are you happy that your pressure has exposed a town role? (usual caveats about pedescribe and amrussel could be lying / preplanned claim etc etc etc etc Others have pointed this out, but yeah, that’s a pretty blatant misrep of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/339 "2008-11-04T18:51:04Z")
First things first: **Unban Nanook** It was a nudge vote, so it’s only fair to change it now. Second - something I picked up on re-read: > [@Hal Briston](#): > > > [@Rapier42](#): > > > > I’m not sure any of this is useful, at this point, except to see who’s talking, and maybe establish data points for later evaluation. > > Quite right…but unless someone wants to step and say “I disagree, and I’m going to respond that same way from every one of my accounts”, it’s pretty much all we’re got right now. What does this mean? Do scum somehow have multiple accounts? Third, don’t want to risk being without a vote tomorrow morning so **ban DiggitCamara** He posted 4 times in quick succession (292-295) but didn’t say anything of consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/340 "2008-11-04T19:00:10Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > What does this mean? Do scum somehow have multiple accounts? **Hal** was saying that unless somebody admits to being a certain role at that point in time, we won’t know they’re that certain role yet. The example he used was of a sock [puppet], an account created as a puppet of another poster, or multiple accounts created by a single person. Based on my role and that of the Charter Members, I’m guessing that the Sock(s), if they exist, are going to be bad guys. Hal seems to agree. Same with Troll(s), IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=18)