# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/441 "2008-11-05T19:38:25Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Ok11, would you mind clarifying your reasoning behind your theory that the Charter Members were masons? I thought for sure that was a breadcrumb. I figured that since Members are vanilla, Charter Members would be slightly more powerful than regular Members. Out of game, I get the impression that Charter Members have been on the board for a long time, and thus sort of know each other. So I thought that title would work well in this game, because it’s like C.M.s are in a special club or something (i.e. masons). Also note that I made the guess before other players pointed out that Og could intentionally try to steer us in the wrong direction with role names. Once **pedescribe** and **amrussell** role-claimed, I realized that others might take my guess as a breadcrumb. I hoped I’d be able to use that to out scum. If **amrussell** was scum, he might have tried to name me as the third C.M. Also, being paranoid and all, I noticed that both **pedescribe** and **amrussell** had sentences that started with a variation of “ok” in their role-claim posts. So again, I thought maybe they were trying to imply something about me, or that it might look that way to others. So, a scum might have taken a chance and said he “recognized” me. Unfortunately, my bait didn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/442 "2008-11-05T19:42:05Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > II’d like it if the people who are in such a rush to vote for me would explain exactly why. I haven’t really seen any reasons put forth, and\*\* every time someone votes for me Today, it’s one less person that can keep me alive later on.\*\* Keep in mind I am not Roosh, and don’t run around pulling crap out of my ass. There’s no milk here to be given out. bolding added Wait your saying that now you need a diffrent person to vote for you each day? Previously you said only the first vote mattered. I can’t believe that we each only get one shot at voting for you. \*\*Unvote Diggit Vote Nanook ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/443 "2008-11-05T19:46:37Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Wait your saying that now you need a diffrent person to vote for you each day? Previously you said only the first vote mattered. I can’t believe that we each only get one shot at voting for you. > [@Me in post 379](#): > > I must have someone different vote for me every Day or I will be modkilled at the end of the Day. Selective misreading or a desire to try and get a bandwagon going early? You decide! ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/444 "2008-11-05T19:59:30Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > “Town on Town violence” is an established term for silliness in voting, is it not? I’m contending that since he’s being voted for being both for and against the Mason claims, _somebody_ on that list is misreading him, and placing a silly vote. I’ve got no reason to believe any of the players that voted for Hero are any more likely to be Town than the rest of you, if thats what you’re asking. In my experience, “Town on Town violence” is a term used when Townies (accidentally) vote for other Townies, as the name necessarily implies, and is not some kind of catch-all for “silliness.” I understand your contention about those voting for **Hero** for apparently contradictory reasons - I don’t have time to research that contention, but it’s irrelevant to my point. My point is that your post indicated to me that you believed those people voting for **Hero** (and **Hero** himself, actually) were all Town (see “Town on Town” above). So, to me, it felt like it might have been a minor slip from a scum who did in fact know that those voters were Town. Or, I freely admit, it could have been an innocent turn of phrase. But it’s Day One, and maybe I got lucky 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/445 "2008-11-05T20:06:36Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > bolding added > > Wait your saying that now you need a diffrent person to vote for you each day? Previously you said only the first vote mattered. I can’t believe that we each only get one shot at voting for you. > > \*\*[colorred]Unvote Diggit[/color] > [colorblue]Vote Nanook[/color] _sigh_ I think **Oredigger** accidentally made a bad play here, but I think those who voted for Nanook earlier did it so they can say, “whoops, sorry, I’ve already used up my vote for him,” later. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/446 "2008-11-05T20:07:59Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > “Town on Town violence” is an established term for silliness in voting, is it not? Can you point me to a single previous game where the term was used in that way? ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/447 "2008-11-05T20:11:17Z")
Elaborate please? ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/448 "2008-11-05T20:12:33Z")
Ugh scooped agian. @Santo\> How did Ore make a bad move? I’m not seeing it. We are at 48+ hours and **Nanook** was already the top lynch candidate before **Ore** ’s vote. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/449 "2008-11-05T20:21:16Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > 1. A quick thanks to those who pointed out the flaws in my reasoning about **Nanook of the North Shore** and his role. I still think we should wait one night and see if anything happens, but you’ve definitely made me reconsider the other things I’ve said. > > 2. If the Day ended this morning, the following people would have missed the voting deadline: > **Blaster Master > DiggitCamara > Fretful Porpentine > Hal Briston > JSexton > Kat > NaturalBlondChap** > > I’d like to hear from them. Sorry. I meant to get a vote in, but between the election and some RL family stuff, I haven’t had much time or mental energy to devote to Mafia. Playing a hunch, because the bizarre posting style and unprompted, unconfirmable roll claim are rubbing me the wrong way, I shall vote peekercpa … although I suspect this will change if I get any better ideas before Nightfall. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/450 "2008-11-05T20:22:48Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > I false claimed exactly once, in Conspiracy. And that hardly counts since it was a no-vanilla game where I was about to be lynched. Not false claiming in that situation is exactly the same as comitting suicide. Why shouldn’t I have lasted as long as I did? There’s no reason for town to ever lynch an uncounter claimed Witch in that format, and the Witches played it right by waiting to counterclaim until they did. > > I’d like it if the people who are in such a rush to vote for me would explain exactly why. I haven’t really seen any reasons put forth, and every time someone votes for me Today, it’s one less person that can keep me alive later on. Keep in mind I am not Roosh, and don’t run around pulling crap out of my ass. There’s no milk here to be given out. Yeah, but nobody even questioned your Witch claim at ALL - hell, two of us Wolves forgot who our own members were and almost didn’t catch your bad prediction. With a claim like that there’s always that protection-WIFOM game among the scum - if the “witch” was protected it would be a wasted kill, but maybe they’re thinking that we’re thinking that they’re thinking… Early claims do, IMHO, get some amount of free legitimacy, earned or unearned. I think it pays to look at them closely. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/451 "2008-11-05T20:36:40Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > In my experience, “Town on Town violence” is a term used when Townies (accidentally) vote for other Townies, as the name necessarily implies, and is not some kind of catch-all for “silliness.” > > I understand your contention about those voting for **Hero** for apparently contradictory reasons - I don’t have time to research that contention, but it’s irrelevant to my point. My point is that your post indicated to me that you believed those people voting for **Hero** (and **Hero** himself, actually) were all Town (see “Town on Town” above). So, to me, it felt like it might have been a minor slip from a scum who did in fact know that those voters were Town. > > Or, I freely admit, it could have been an innocent turn of phrase. But it’s Day One, and maybe I got lucky 🆒 Well, ok. > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Can you point me to a single previous game where the term was used in that way? No, of course not. I can’t crawl inside another players head to determine meaning, I can only assert my interpretation. Obviously it was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/452 "2008-11-05T20:46:28Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > I false claimed exactly once, in Conspiracy. And that hardly counts since it was a no-vanilla game where I was about to be lynched. Not false claiming in that situation is exactly the same as comitting suicide. Why shouldn’t I have lasted as long as I did? There’s no reason for town to ever lynch an uncounter claimed Witch in that format, and the Witches played it right by waiting to counterclaim until they did. > > I’d like it if the people who are in such a rush to vote for me would explain exactly why. I haven’t really seen any reasons put forth, and every time someone votes for me Today, it’s one less person that can keep me alive later on. Keep in mind I am not Roosh, and don’t run around pulling crap out of my ass. There’s no milk here to be given out. Just because you haven’t in the past doesn’t mean you won’t in the future. How much history do we have to draw on, anyway? 2 games? 3? 4? 1 in 2/3/4 is still pretty significant. Either way, you proved you have the capacity to false claim. But this point is moot anyway, because I believe that you have some sort of restriction/bonus that has to do with unique voters. I just don’t think you’re town. > [@ok11](#): > > I figured that since Members are vanilla, Charter Members would be slightly more powerful than regular Members. Out of game, I get the impression that Charter Members have been on the board for a long time, and thus sort of know each other. So I thought that title would work well in this game, because it’s like C.M.s are in a special club or something (i.e. masons). Also note that I made the guess before other players pointed out that Og could intentionally try to steer us in the wrong direction with role names. > > Once **pedescribe** and **amrussell** role-claimed, I realized that others might take my guess as a breadcrumb. I hoped I’d be able to use that to out scum. If **amrussell** was scum, he might have tried to name me as the third C.M. Also, being paranoid and all, I noticed that both **pedescribe** and **amrussell** had sentences that started with a variation of “ok” in their role-claim posts. So again, I thought maybe they were trying to imply something about me, or that it might look that way to others. So, a scum might have taken a chance and said he “recognized” me. Unfortunately, my bait didn’t work. Clever. I thought you were the last mason too. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > In my experience, “Town on Town violence” is a term used when Townies (accidentally) vote for other Townies, as the name necessarily implies, and is not some kind of catch-all for “silliness.” > > I understand your contention about those voting for **Hero** for apparently contradictory reasons - I don’t have time to research that contention, but it’s irrelevant to my point. My point is that your post indicated to me that you believed those people voting for **Hero** (and **Hero** himself, actually) were all Town (see “Town on Town” above). So, to me, it felt like it might have been a minor slip from a scum who did in fact know that those voters were Town. > > Or, I freely admit, it could have been an innocent turn of phrase. But it’s Day One, and maybe I got lucky 🆒 FTR, Shadow, I’ve seen it used this way too. I see where you’re coming from, but blatant slips seem to be rarer than townspeople making what look like blatant slips. > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > _sigh_ > > I think **Oredigger** accidentally made a bad play here, but I think those who voted for Nanook earlier did it so they can say, “whoops, sorry, I’ve already used up my vote for him,” later. Not me. I’m pretty darn sure he’s PFK, and that means he needs to die sooner or later. It’s day one, so I’m not concerned about making the best play over making a good play. Thus, my vote. > [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Ugh scooped agian. @Santo\> How did Ore make a bad move? I’m not seeing it. We are at 48+ hours and **Nanook** was already the top lynch candidate before **Ore** ’s vote. …scooped? ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/453 "2008-11-05T22:53:45Z")
as in, there was a message between what I was replying to and my own. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/454 "2008-11-05T23:34:24Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > _sigh_ > > I think **Oredigger** accidentally made a bad play here, but I think those who voted for Nanook earlier did it so they can say, “whoops, sorry, I’ve already used up my vote for him,” later. I went back and reread and my memory was faulty but something about this power restriction is still bothering me. Assuming he is town there are 22 players that would be willing to vote for him but as players get eliminated (scum kill and lynch) and vote for him he will basically lose three players from his pool every day (possibly more) this basically gives him a lifespan of 7 Days if there is a second killing power at work or any case builds against him this could easily be cut down to 5. With **Boozy, Hero, Peeker, Pede** and myself already voting for him there are still 18 new voters available with a triple elimination per day (assuming none of us are the one killed) he still has 6 days and the 5 of us are safe from night kills. These numbers don’t change if he is third party PFK but if he’s scum get worse due to that faction not wanting to vote for him. Unless he is a lone older of a huge pro-town power I don’t see this balancing but with PFK it makes perfect sense if he’s playing on his own to have the balancing power that can eliminate enough players for him to win on Day 5-6. I’m comfortable with my vote for now but I did initially vote for him for the wrong reason. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/455 "2008-11-06T00:09:47Z")
Your numbers are slightly off, I think, Oredigger (paging BLAM…). Did you account for the lynch or NK taking out a player that already voted for him? And assuming random distribution, what are the odds? I think thats the question that needs answered - given one lynch, one NK, and one player voting for Nanook per Day, what are the odds that there will still be players around that haven’t voted for him in, say, 8 Days? ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/456 "2008-11-06T00:38:09Z")
I’m going to make several posts, because post length and number of people paying attention seem to be inversely proportional. Part 1 - **peekercpa** My attempt to decode **peekercpa** ’s posts was semi-successful, so I will not be voting for him today. In his posts, he made several observations about other players, so the fluff to content ratio isn’t as high as I initially thought. I don’t get why he made two remarks directed at **Pleonast** , but those are too obvious to be breadcrumbs. I’m guessing it’s a reference to something that happened in a previous game; some sort of inside joke. **Peekercpa** , when you’re leaving breadcrumbs, could you dumb them down a bit? Otherwise, it’s unlikely that town will be able to follow the trail you left. Because if you’re banned at some point in the game, unless Og tells us that your role name is “He who hides info by doing so and so,” I doubt I’ll be able to decipher the clues. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/457 "2008-11-06T00:42:06Z")
Part 2 - Top Vote Getters Right now, **Nanook of the North Shore** is in the lead with 5 votes, followed by **NaturalBlondChap** and **Hero From Sector 7G** with 3 votes each. I don’t want to vote for any of them toDay. I think we should wait at least until Tomorrow before banning **Nanook of the North Shore** , because I’m curious to see if he has some sort of Night power. I think it’s worth the risk to let him live at least a Day. I don’t think anyone made a strong case against **NaturalBlondChap**. People threw suspicion his way because he classified role names into categories, and made a “slip” (re: **JSexton** post). Neither of those seem ban-worthy to me. If he didn’t start talking about roles, someone else would have. It’s one of the few pieces of info we had at the start of the game, so there was little else to break the ice. And if **JSexton** missed the next page, why is it so hard to believe that **NBC** missed the comment about missing the next page? I already explained why I unvoted **Hero From Sector 7G** , and my opinion hasn’t changed since then. Also, I’d like to comment on the **Hero From Sector 7G** “town-on-new guy violence” issue, which later transforms into the “Town on Town violence” issue. (The former allegedly implying that everyone voting for **Hero From Sector 7G** is town, and the latter also including **Hero From Sector 7G** as town) I don’t buy that this was a slip, and everyone involved is town. **Hero From Sector 7G** was close to getting banned. If he’s town, it’s likely that at least one scum voted for him. If he’s scum, then the “Town on Town” hypothesis doesn’t make sense. (Part 3 will follow a little later) ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/458 "2008-11-06T00:52:00Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > I think we should wait at least until Tomorrow before banning **Nanook of the North Shore** , because I’m curious to see if he has some sort of Night power. I think it’s worth the risk to let him live at least a Day. I’ve thought of this too, but in the opposite direction. Frequently, scum and PFK roles will have a variety of ‘one-offs’ to make up for the fact that they (in the scum’s case) can’t have too powerful a role without unbalancing the game, or (in PFK’s case) because they’re playing alone. For example: Rysto. Death. A killer, but he also had an extra 1/3 chance kill resistance and a one shot redirection. Roosh: Survivor. Protection from daykills, but he also had oneshot lynch and night resistance. And there are others. Point being, if he’s scum or PFK (or town, I suppose, but most townie roles tend to be consistent and direct), he’s likely to have some sort of one-shot megapower (I’d say possibly, except with such a weird restriction, the one-shot is much more likely). I want to stop him before he can use it. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/459 "2008-11-06T00:58:28Z")
Part 3 - My candidate Voting for someone other than the top vote getters is unlikely to make a difference. Even if I manage to find a good candidate, I doubt that I’d be able to convince enough people to vote for him/her. I’m concerned that 7 people didn’t vote last time, and I think 7 have yet to vote today. That’s dangerous. Although in theory I’m against banning lurkers, in practice it might be the best option right now. If I had to pick one, I’d go with **DiggitCamara** (consider this a fair warning). Two C.M.s voted for him last time, and no one jumped at the opportunity to build a band wagon. If he was town, this would be a safe place to put a vote. Based on that (admittedly weak) reasoning, I think **DiggitCamara** might be scum. I’m not voting for him yet, because I’d like to see what others think. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/460 "2008-11-06T01:02:41Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Point being, if he’s scum or PFK (or town, I suppose, but most townie roles tend to be consistent and direct), he’s likely to have some sort of one-shot megapower (I’d say possibly, except with such a weird restriction, the one-shot is much more likely). I want to stop him before he can use it. That makes sense. I’ll think about it overnight, and might place my vote on **Nanook of the North Shore** in the morning, depending on what else happens between now and then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=24)