# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/621 "2008-11-07T23:30:01Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > I’m curious as to why you feel that way. The setup is experimental, so any and all feedback on it would be appreciated. I’m going to answer at night, because it’s a question of mafia theory, not one of strategy for this particular game. The Day portion of mafia generally comes in a series of waves. Support for a bandwagon builds, with players presenting attacks, refuting attacks, voting, and so on. Generally, one of three things happens: 1. it peters out, because there is little foundation. 2. it reaches the point where the wagonee claims, and the claim is convincing enough. 3. Same, but the claim is not enough, and the player is lynched. The first case is a small waves that recedes. The second is large wave, but it also recedes. The third is the end of the day. In the first two cases, even though there is no town consensus to lynch that player, it takes time for people to unvote, either from simply being away from the keyboard, or because it takes longer to convince them. Now, when there is a short (but known) deadline, then the waves will necessarily happen faster, because you don’t want to take all three days dealign with one wagon and being forced to lynch that person or no one at all. When the deadline is long, then waves can develop more slowly. In an unknown deadline situation, what happens when the deadline hits on the downslope of a wave? Yup, a player who was in the process of being unvoted dies. That’s unfair to that player, whether town or scum. Alternatively, what happens when the wave is on the upswing, but a player either has not claimed, or is still in the process of refuting arguments? _Thwack_ Dead cop who was trying to avoid claiming. Fun. The other issue was touched on, that we’re basically forced to pile on votes early. That sounds like it increases responsibility, but it really doesn’t. Any time you have increased pressure to vote, you simultaneously provide the excuse for a poorly-planned vote: the urgency. So what is the effect of these two issues? We’re forced to vote quickly and pile on, but the recipient may or may not have time to defend themselves. Worse, they may get randomly lynched _even though they successfully fought off the mob._ I don’t think that’s a fun scenario. I get that you’re trying to encourage participation and foster regular attention to the thread (and I’m all for that), but I think the premise is fundamentally flawed. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/622 "2008-11-08T02:40:35Z")
Well, I really need to work on my posting style, one day I will get beyond day 2. Have fun all, go town, die scum. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/623 "2008-11-08T02:45:52Z")
I have to say I disagree. Your points are quite valid, but I think it brings an element into the game that players (whether town or scum) need to figure out how to use to their advantage. If one team figures out how to manipulate the system, they’re going to have the advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/624 "2008-11-08T03:18:34Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Then someone shouted, “GET THE SQUID!” > > **NBC, a Guest – a pro town role – has been banned.** With a squid. [/indent] Why the hell do I get dragged into this? I didn’t even vote for the guy! ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/625 "2008-11-08T03:55:22Z")
I am going to try to remain consistent. Whatever **pleo** thinks I will be polar opposite. I like the random end of the day. Makes folks put their ideas on record. Also, makes the non voters stand out like a blast to the ever living head. And now I feel doubly bad about my treatment of **Hero**. Where is the passion and disdain that I am accustomed to. Getting soft in my old age. [Julia Child]If you add a little bit of cream and melted butter to your scrambled eggs they will be noticably fluffier[/Julia Child] And I just gotta add this PAC 10 shit is a bit tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/626 "2008-11-08T04:10:20Z")
I have to say: I kinda like the **peekercpa** “explanations”. They crack me up. _dodges thrown deadly objects_ ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/627 "2008-11-08T04:51:37Z")
> [@NaturalBlondChap](#): > > Well, I really need to work on my posting style, one day I will get beyond day 2. > Have fun all, go town, die scum. At least now, though, people will have a record of you being town. Also, it might help if you left your bridge and shaved the fur. :kiddingkidding: ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/628 "2008-11-08T10:55:11Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Oh well that cute girl in accounting was wearing a sweater today I think I’ll go say hi. That makes sense… so you never ever go say hi, when she is NOT wearing a sweater 😃 (there are ways around filters at work - not that I would surf for porn 😉 so I wouldn’t know them…) ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/629 "2008-11-08T17:25:56Z")
Hmm, **Total Lost** that seems to directly contradict a story I remember you telling recently… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/630 "2008-11-08T19:28:28Z")
Tell the story! Tell the story! ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/631 "2008-11-08T19:32:58Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > I have to say I disagree. Your points are quite valid, but I think it brings an element into the game that players (whether town or scum) need to figure out how to use to their advantage. If one team figures out how to manipulate the system, they’re going to have the advantage. You’re making my point for me. A deadline system is meant to encourage participation. I don’t think the mods are intending it to be something exploitable by the players. If I’m wrong about that, so be it, but I don’t think I am. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/632 "2008-11-08T19:55:17Z")
It’s not my story to tell, or I surely would! **JSexton** , I may play the game a bit differently than you, but IMHO, _everything_ is exploitable by the players. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/633 "2008-11-08T20:32:37Z")
_pouts_ ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/634 "2008-11-08T21:40:50Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > It’s not my story to tell, or I surely would! > > **JSexton** , I may play the game a bit differently than you, but IMHO, _everything_ is exploitable by the players. Of course it is. But it’s up to the mods to decide what they want to be exploitable. From a designers perspective (and I’ve had a hand in a couple dozen games), the deadline system should be more or less invisible. Ideally, you want to shape a system that [ul] [li]encourages participation[/li][li]punishes lurking without unduly punishing the lurkers team[/li][li]aims for a specific day length[/li][li]allows the day to end by player consent[/li][/ul] Such a balance is hard to reach, admittedly. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/635 "2008-11-09T00:39:57Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > And I just gotta add this PAC 10 shit is a bit tiresome. I’ve got a new bet for ya I’ll take tech again this time over OSU. Double or nothing on your sig line. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/636 "2008-11-09T01:47:31Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Of course it is. But it’s up to the mods to decide what they want to be exploitable… Fair enough. But, I’ve yet to see a spoiled forum where one of the mods hasn’t said, “I didn’t expect them to do\* that\*!” I get what you’re saying, but to quote something I wrote in the end game discussion of a recent (LoTR) facebook game (note that this advice was directed towards players with about three games under their belt): [QUOTE = Santo Rugger on facebook] One thing everybody’s got to remember is that different game situations require different strategies. For example, in this game, it wasn’t as bad as in other games to expose the Masons, since it gave the town a confirmed voting block and allowed confirmable roles immediately. So the scum had to either go after the RING or after the confirmed Townies… they were really stuck between a rock and a hard place. [/QUOTE] I’ll expand on this point if I’m still around Tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/637 "2008-11-09T04:12:22Z")
I don’t want to go too much into my rationale for the game design here, but I can address some of the points brought up. The random days were certainly intended to produce a sense of urgency, but if that was my sole rationale, then going with an idea like Kat’s random day end would have been sufficient. The cause of town laziness isn’t solely a lack of pressure. A good portion is that there is only so many times when you can have the same argument about random voting or whatever else. Thus, I also wanted to present everybody with new circumstances, and see how they dealt with it, hopefully allowing for new discussions and arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/638 "2008-11-09T10:04:28Z")
> [@Kat](#): > > Tell the story! Tell the story! IRL-story: At work I got a mail with a video attached. I open the video - and it’s two naked girls having sex with a power tool with a dildo attached. I watch - laught - and go to get a cup of coffee… and forget that the Windows Media Player starts video over again once the have been played. While I’m standing in front of the coffee-machine (just outside my office) talking to some colleagues… you can hear the porn-sounds comming from my office. I ran back - turn the sound off - walked back to get my coffee - and EVERYBODY was laughing SO much at me that I blushed (and that only made them laugh even more) ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/639 "2008-11-09T12:23:29Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I’ve got a new bet for ya I’ll take tech again this time over OSU. Double or nothing on your sig line. Actually the missus is a TT’er. I’ll take Tech. Where the fuck is **Pede**. I think we can make this a three way. Waits for **santo** to wander in and make a suitably inappropriate comment. Wait a minute. Too many penises. We need vaginas. Any volunteers, ladies. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/640 "2008-11-09T13:09:12Z")
Uh, now that I get to see Sportcenter, no way. I’ll take an Iowa State upst, however. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=33)