# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/801 "2008-11-11T16:19:29Z")
What’s escrow? As for Zeriel, he’s certainly playing aggressivly. But I’m not sure that makes him scum. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/802 "2008-11-11T16:21:15Z")
Aggressively and carelessly. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/803 "2008-11-11T16:39:17Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I didn’t lie, though. Nothing I said was untrue. Was it calculated to deceive? Yes, to a point, and for a very specific purpose. I wasn’t trying to deceive everyone, though, just ok11, and just long enough to elicit a reaction. I think that’s a pretty crucial difference. > Has it, though? Haven’t several people given off some interesting reactions? Hasn’t it generated some discussion that could find scum? You knew, though, that it wasn’t just you and her - the rest of us would be watching and voting. The reason my vote is still on you, though, is that after your weak gambit you tried to call her for Town. IF she wasn’t a Night actor playing dumb, the fact that she didn’t do anything at night is certainly not an indication that she’s Town. She would have had to be either a role with powers that she actually used last Night or a scum killer, not just vanilla scum. If she were vanilla scum and you pulled that gambit, ESPECIALLY since you got who she was wrong to start with, she would have responded the same way. Yet you decided she was Town? I’m not saying she is or isn’t Town, but you sure as hell don’t know. All you could even claim to know is that you believe, due to her reaction, that she didn’t actually do anything last Night, be she scum or be she town. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/804 "2008-11-11T16:54:33Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Oh, well I’m not going to lynch players that have run into real life. **MHaye** can we get a replacement? We asked him to contact us within a certain deadline, which has not yet passed. I don’t think we should look for a replacement until the deadline has passed. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/805 "2008-11-11T16:57:41Z")
Ahh, the mood swings one goes through when catching up (FTR, I’m here during my workday – 11-7 EST…other than, I’m probably not at my desk). From the time of my last post it went from “WTF **JSexton**? That was a **gambit**?! Forget it, you’re going under the hammer today” to “But it was such a ridiculous gambit, would scum _really_ make a play like that?” But here’s where you dropped the ball for me: > [@JSexton](#): > > I especially like how Hal painted it so that no matter how ok11 came up, he could find a way for me to be scum. :dubious: See, here’s the problem…you’re quite a good player. You’re on a short list of players that when I see a post, my thought is often “Huh..that was smart…wish I’d have picked up on that”. So, when you pull a move like your gambit, I think “how awfully unlike him”. Then when you deliberately misrepresent what I said, I think “how awfully unlike him…unless he’s scum”. Take a reread of [what I actually said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10430438&postcount=729). I said that if **ok11** came back as scum/PFK, then we could “be pretty sure” that you could be trusted. If she came back as PFK, then you would almost certainly be town. If she came back as scum, then you would probably be town. Probably town, but possibly a busing scumbuddy. So we’re back to you being a smart player – smarter than your quoted line. Of course I could find a way for you to be scum. Your statement makes it sound like the concept of scum busing their buddies is completely foreign to you. Ain’t buying it. Unvote **ok11** Vote **JSexton** ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/806 "2008-11-11T16:58:31Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Well, I’ve caught up on the whole \*\*JSexton \*\*gambit, and I’m getting the opposite read than most others so far. It looks to me like a veteran stab that failed, and I suspect there are some scum who are voting for him because he’s an easy target for doing something out of the box. > > I’m particularly interested to see \*\*Santo Rugger’s \*\*response, which is completely at odds with his attitude in the T-2 game (he was Town), where he said: > > (bolding mine) > > Care to explain your change of heart, **Santo**? Yaknow, I’ve been thinking about this offline since the bluff was revealed, and I still don’t know what to think. The reason being, tried to pull a gambit in the most recently ended facebook game that didn’t go over to well. Some background (feel free to skip): It was a LoTR themed game, modded by **Total Lost**. My character was GANDALF, who started the game as an investigator. Night 1 and Night 2, I investigated Masons. Another Mason had already been outed. Therefore, I knew who all the Masons were, sans one. FRODO, the ring bearer, and GANDALF were considered the two most powerful roles in the game. I had a “brilliant” idea that I would claim to be the fourth Mason. My hope was that the real fourth Mason would pick up on it, realize what I was doing, and claim to be GANDALF when the time came. Unfortunately, one of the other Masons outed me as a liar before the opportunity presented itself. So, I got bombed by a Mason (Daykilled)… lynch all liars and all. My point is that my “What the fuck is he _doing?!_” instincts over rode my “Hmm, maybe he has a point,” instincts. I still don’t like it, but he’s right, it’s not gaining him any town cred, and the only possible benefit would have been to out somebody with a Night action. The reason I don’t like it, in part, is because it could have just as easily been scum trying (or town innocently) to out a role with a night action. I’m going to relabel it as a null, and \*\*Unvote JSexton \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/807 "2008-11-11T17:02:13Z")
Oh, and P.S. to **Shadow Facts** , if you tell me the date that was posted, I’ll look up the date my gambit in the LoTR game was. I’m guessing they’re pretty close to each other, hence the frustration leaking through into multiple games. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/808 "2008-11-11T17:16:07Z")
At the beginning of the Day, several payers said that they were waiting to hear from **Nanook**. Now that you’ve heard from him, what are your thoughts? Have we agreed to a Mod kill toDay? I’m for it, and here’s why: [Metagaming, or “What would Og Do?”] YesterDay, I was more inclined to believe **Nanook** , because I thought Og was messing with us, and gave **Nanook** a role that’s not on the list. So far, every other player who claims to have a role says that their role is on the list. If Og did mess with roles, I think he would have left off more roles, or messed this way with roles that are easier to confirm. I don’t think that Og would have burdened a player so much by giving him both a weird vote requirement as well as a role that’s not on the list. [/Metagaming] ToDay, it seems much more likely to me that **Nanook** lied about his role, either because his real role gives off a really anti-town vibe (e.g Mark Wit, or Troll, as **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** suggested), or because he didn’t want to get counterclaimed. If he’s really pro-town, wouldn’t it make more sense for him to just tell us his role/power? It might become less effective when the scum find out about it, but so what? If it’s a choice between being banned and (in the worst case scenario) being powerless, then it’s better to pick powerless. Even if scum kill him at Night, at least our other powers will be safe a little longer. Could somebody please explain what **Nanook** claimed to be able to do? My limited understanding is that he can replicate another player’s Night action. If that’s true, then how could he have been blocked? (Being blocked is my interpretation of what he said; I think **pedescribe** had a different one) If he replicated someone and nothing happened, he should tell us, because that might mean that the person he replicated is town. If he replicated scum, and that’s why there were two kills, he should definitely tell us. Of course, it’s much more likely that the second kill was by a Vig or SK. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/809 "2008-11-11T17:47:55Z")
I don’t remember Nanook claiming anything, actually–he made an allusion to another game where one of the players had a power that he’d lose if he truthfully roleclaimed, though. I’d appreciate a link to where Nanook claimed to be able to replicate powers–I can’t find that one. And didn’t we spend the last bit of yesterday and the beginning of today discussing why rampant roleclaims are bad? I was re-reading and Hal and JSexton are both pinging me, but the last post by ok11 makes me feel comfortable with him getting lynched as well. JSexton’s on the list because the gambit is kinda iffy in my opinion, although he’s not as high as Hal Briston, who’s starting to get a reputation in my eyes as a bandwagon-boarding guy after his votes on NBC yesterDay and the timing of his positions in the ok11 vs. JSexton thing today. Gut feeling tells me to **unban ok11 and ban Hal Briston**. Hero, I always play aggressively and I get less careless with my vote the more sure I am. Cope. FOS means not much. A vote can shake things loose sometimes. Anyone who has an opinion on Nanook should probably either vote for him or speak up, as if he’s telling the truth he’s going to die toNight otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/810 "2008-11-11T17:49:19Z")
er, first sentence of my last post–claiming anything specific, actually, it should read. And for the love of crap, it’s -el! -el! I dunno who zerial is but it makes me think of Al Bundy with angel wings and that’s just not cool. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/811 "2008-11-11T18:01:11Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Those of you that are familiar with the offboard games will understand what I’m saying here. Those of you that aren’t, well, you’ll have to ask someone to explain it to you. > > I want to be clear that I am not claiming anything. I’m just…mentioning things in context. In one of the offboard games, Blade Runner which no longer appears to be available, there was a role that was lynched on Day 1 I believe. He was a town aligned replicant with powers and restrictions. Someone else that played in it can explain it better than I I’m sure. > > With that said, I will have nothing further to say on this topic. I’ve asked repeatedly (directly and indirectly) what Blade Runner was all about. I don’t have time to read that game. I thought he was saying that his power is similar to the one in Blade Runner. Now it turns out his restriction might be similar to the one in that game. How was I supposed to figure that out? ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/812 "2008-11-11T18:13:24Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I don’t remember Nanook claiming anything, actually–he made an allusion to another game where one of the players had a power that he’d lose if he truthfully roleclaimed, though. I’d appreciate a link to where Nanook claimed to be able to replicate powers–I can’t find that one. I guess I must have missed this. If Nanook is having a shoe problem, that makes his truculence a little more understandable. I’m of mixed feelings about the no-vote plan anyway. _IF_ Nanook is Town, and telling the truth about his must-get-voted-or-die condition (and maybe has a post restriction besides?), then the goodies he’s probably got to go with it are groovy. I’m not convinced that he’s telling the truth yet, but the risk to Town if he is is high. Note that Og has already expressed an interest in shaking things up, Nanooks role could be _designed_ to hurt us if we don’t think this through. Nanook, can you in any way shed further light on your rolename and powers? Are you allowed to answer yes/no questions? Can we talk in metaphor? Semaphor? Morse code? One blink for yes? I’m about ready to give Nanook a vote for the Day, and let this play out a little farther, but I’ll wait to hear objections first. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/813 "2008-11-11T18:16:05Z")
I’ve reread the whole **JSexton** Gambit. Here’s my opinion on the people involved: **Zsofia** , **Squid** , **Hal** : they seem to have Townie reactions–wondering what **JS** is accusing, accepting an either-or situation, then negative reaction at the sudden withdrawal of the accusation. **Oredigger** , **ok** : fairly Townie bewilderment. **JSexton** : tries one player, when that quickly fails, switches to another. Primary defense is “it’s obvious I’d get heat, so no scum would do that”. Yeah, right. Scum around here are more clever than that. Not a good excuse. And this exchange: > [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Hey, let 'em keep quiet. If **ok11** comes back as scum/PFK, then great – we know\* **JSexton** can be trusted, but he doesn’t have to spill everything and clue in the scum as to his role… > \*The role of “know” will be played by “be pretty sure, anyway”. I’ll feel better if **ok11** came back as PFK. If she comes up scum, then there will be the nagging thought that **JSexton** is a busing scumbuddy. > [@JSexton](#): > > I especially like how Hal painted it so that no matter how ok11 came up, he could find a way for me to be scum. :dubious: I’m willing to forgive the gambit itself, but this mischaracterization of another player’s comments is incredibly scummy. I’ll put a vote for this: **ban JSexton** > [@JSexton](#): > > I didn’t lie, though. Nothing I said was untrue. Was it calculated to deceive? Yes, to a point, and for a very specific purpose. I wasn’t trying to deceive everyone, though, just ok11, and just long enough to elicit a reaction. I think that’s a pretty crucial difference. > Has it, though? Haven’t several people given off some interesting reactions? Hasn’t it generated some discussion that could find scum? A statement calculated to deceive is a lie for the purposes of this game. We’re smart enough to discern your implication. And Townies are here to get information, not to trick each other. This is the same complaint I had against **peeker** , and it holds for everyone else too. I’m now more happy with my vote on you. And the only player in the gambit exchange that did not act as a Townie appears to be you. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/814 "2008-11-11T18:18:24Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > What’s escrow? That’s the trusted third-party (not buyer, not seller) that handles the money and title and the transfer of them. It’s so the two parties can’t renege on their contracts. More reliable than a lawsuit for contract enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/815 "2008-11-11T18:21:38Z")
What’s up with the votes on **Blaster**? What information do you expect to get from his lynch? His contributions are nil. Whatever his alignment, there’s no record to hold against. It’s a waste of a lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/816 "2008-11-11T18:25:05Z")
Wanted to add no voters and Masons. **NBC** : 6 (Santo Rugger, Hal Briston, Pedescribe, Zeriel, JSexton, Nanook o/t North Shore) **Nanook o/t North Shore** : 5 (BS PI, Hero from Sector 7G, Peekercpa, Oredigger77, NBC) **DiggitCamara** : 2 (ok11, ShadowFacts) **Hero from Sector 7G** : 2 (One and Only Wanderers, Total Lost) **Zeriel** : 2 (Kat, amrussell) **Kat** : 1 (Zsofia) **peekercpa** : 1 (Fretful Porpentine) **ok11** : 1 (DiggitCamara) **No Vote** : 3 (Rapier42, Blaster Master, Pleonast) Colors: Unknown, Town, Scum, Claimed Mason ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/817 "2008-11-11T18:46:29Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > We asked him to contact us within a certain deadline, which has not yet passed. I don’t think we should look for a replacement until the deadline has passed. **If the Day ends soon and Blaster Master doesn’t respond before then, will he be subbed or Mod killed?** If we’ll get a sub, or if **Blaster Master** posts something, I’ll unvote. > [@Pleonast](#): > > What’s up with the votes on Blaster? What information do you expect to get from his lynch? His contributions are nil. Whatever his alignment, there’s no record to hold against. It’s a waste of a lynch. Knowing his alignment will help to figure out how screwed we are from all these town deaths. If he’s a power role, we’ll know whether his role is on the list, and again, we will be better able to assess the degree to which we’re screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/818 "2008-11-11T19:09:16Z")
If and when **Og** takes an action you all will be notified. The goals assigned to you by **Og** are not easy to achieve. I highly suggest you keep your focus on things under your control. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/819 "2008-11-11T19:15:23Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > I guess I must have missed this. If Nanook is having a shoe problem, that makes his truculence a little more understandable. > > I’m of mixed feelings about the no-vote plan anyway. _IF_ Nanook is Town, and telling the truth about his must-get-voted-or-die condition (and maybe has a post restriction besides?), then the goodies he’s probably got to go with it are groovy. I’m not convinced that he’s telling the truth yet, but the risk to Town if he is is high. Note that Og has already expressed an interest in shaking things up, Nanooks role could be _designed_ to hurt us if we don’t think this through. > > Nanook, can you in any way shed further light on your rolename and powers? Are you allowed to answer yes/no questions? Can we talk in metaphor? Semaphor? Morse code? One blink for yes? > > I’m about ready to give Nanook a vote for the Day, and let this play out a little farther, but I’ll wait to hear objections first. This is my thinking as well – I’m none too happy with letting **Nanook** get killed by inaction, at least not until we know a little more. Among other things, if he’s anti-Town, I’m not convinced that he would have revealed his role WHEN he did (after he had already gotten his vote for the day, but _not_ at a time when he was in immediate danger of lynching). It doesn’t make a lot of sense for a PFK-Nanook to speak up at that point, still less for a scum-Nanook who can reasonably expect help from his teammates; it _does_ make sense for a Town player who wants the Town to have enough information about his role to make an informed decision. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/820 "2008-11-11T19:16:40Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > JSexton’s on the list because the gambit is kinda iffy in my opinion, although he’s not as high as Hal Briston, who’s starting to get a reputation in my eyes as a bandwagon-boarding guy after his votes on NBC yesterDay and the timing of his positions in the ok11 vs. JSexton thing today. > > Gut feeling tells me to **unban ok11 and ban Hal Briston**. (bleached) Ok, I’m going to have to ask you to back up your statements here. You want to say I bandwagon voted **NBC** , that’s fine. I wasn’t here for the better part of the Day, and when I returned, the arguments against him (part of which _you yourself_ were making) seemed like the best case. I went with who I saw as scummiest, simple as that. However, I’d _love_ to hear how you can call “bandwagon” on the **ok11** / **JSexton** votes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=42)