# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/821 "2008-11-11T19:32:06Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > However, I’d _love_ to hear how you can call “bandwagon” on the **ok11** / **JSexton** votes. You jumped on ok11 right after I did, with a decent reason…then unvoted and immediately revoted after JSexton did. Then you switched with the tide when you returned and voted JSexton…with what feels to me like a flimsy reason. He didn’t misrepresent you THAT badly, considering the way you phrased it–you’d have been a lot better off to have phrased that differently than with a tag, because it was the late uncertainty you expressed that seems to have stuck in people’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/822 "2008-11-11T19:34:00Z")
Hey guys, sorry I COMPLETELY forgot I was going to be out of town for a few days when I signed up. Fortunately, today is a federal holiday, so I should have plenty of undisturbed time to try to catch up and if I’m not up to the task, I’ll request a sub out and let someone else do the catching up instead. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/823 "2008-11-11T20:03:51Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > This is my thinking as well – I’m none too happy with letting **Nanook** get killed by inaction, at least not until we know a little more. Among other things, if he’s anti-Town, I’m not convinced that he would have revealed his role WHEN he did (after he had already gotten his vote for the day, but _not_ at a time when he was in immediate danger of lynching). It doesn’t make a lot of sense for a PFK-Nanook to speak up at that point, still less for a scum-Nanook who can reasonably expect help from his teammates; it _does_ make sense for a Town player who wants the Town to have enough information about his role to make an informed decision. But, as some have pointed out, either a pro or anti Town role may have decided to get it out there on the first day before he was in danger so that he would have a better chance of being believed. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/824 "2008-11-11T20:13:08Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You jumped on ok11 right after I did, with a decent reason…then unvoted and immediately revoted after JSexton did. Let’s make sure we get it right – I voted for **ok11** with a decent reason. When she explained it, I realized my misunderstanding and unvoted her. Then **JSexton** put out his ploy, and I quite reasonably put my vote back on **ok11**. Once the ploy was revealed, I…well, hell, I didn’t know what to make of it – until **JSexton** tried misrepresenting what I said, then I called him on it and voted for him. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Then you switched with the tide when you returned and voted JSexton… Yeah, I really went along with tide there, didn’t I? Oh…wait…his reveal was at a few minutes after 7pm, and I voted at bit after 11am…my work hours (when I’m online) are…what was it again? Oh yeah…11-7. If I were here when **JSexton** put that out there, then it wouldn’t have mattered a damn bit who else had voted. > [@Zeriel](#): > > …with what feels to me like a flimsy reason. He didn’t misrepresent you THAT badly, Flimsy? Considering the fact that I’m piling up votes, I’d have to say that the misrepresentation was _quite_ bad. Can you honestly say that when someone misrepresents what you said, that you’d let them skate on it? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/825 "2008-11-11T20:33:29Z")
Unvote Blaster Master My wacko theory has been shot down, so never mind. I’m going to again **Vote JSexton** because, thinking about it–if he doesn’t get lynched today, he won’t ever. This will be a point towards his townie cred…a good reasonf for a scum to do such an absurd idea. And I’m really not seeing why Hal is so suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/826 "2008-11-11T20:49:13Z")
I’d like to ask everyone to pay attention to how the vote is evolving and ask yourselves what it might mean. I’ll lay it out: at 9pm last night we had this vote count (post #768): JSexton : 4 (BS PI, Zsofia, Santo Rugger, Rapier42) Zeriel : 2 (Kat, amrussell) ok11 : 2 (Zeriel, Hal Briston) Blaster Master : 1 (Pedescribe) Hal Briston : 1 (Oredigger77) I’m going to be focusing on \*\*Hal \*\*and **JSexton’s** counts here. [ul] [li] **Pedescribe** then votes for **JSexton** , taking him to 5, but then unvotes after **JSexton** explains himself. So he’s back to 4.[/li][li]Then I post my review and vote for **Hal** , making it **JSexton** 4, **Hal** 2.[/li][li] **amrussell** then chimes in with a solid post on why he thinks **JSexton** is probably town. To my read, the steam is beginning to come off of the **JSexton** train a bit(although **Zeriel** is still pressing him).[/li][li]Then Hal himself votes for **JSexton** , making it 5-2. But **Santo** then unvotes **JSexton** right after, returning it to 4-2.[/li][li] **Zeriel** then votes for **Hal** , making it 4-3 with some momentum on the Hal train.[/li][li]Then **Pleonast** votes for **JSexton** , taking **Hal** out of immediate danger.[/li][/ul] Now, my vote is on **Hal** and I find him to be a little suspicious, so I am looking at this with that filter. But I think everyone should think about this sequence and ask themselves what they think it means. At the very least, it will be very interesting to look back at this if one of them is banned and we get their alignment, because I detect some definite maneuvering. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/827 "2008-11-11T20:58:20Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > But, as some have pointed out, either a pro or anti Town role may have decided to get it out there on the first day before he was in danger so that he would have a better chance of being believed. Hmm, how’s that been working out for him? Assuming his survival conditions are as he’s outlined, I’d say he would have had a _much_ better chance of surviving toDay if he had kept mum than he does now. Of course, whether an anti-Town **Nanook** could reasonably have _predicted_ that he’d have a better chance of surviving longer if he kept mum is another question. But given the Town’s track record of lynching anyone who sticks out from the pack, I’d be inclined not to take the risk if I were scum. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/828 "2008-11-11T21:08:26Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Now, my vote is on **Hal** and I find him to be a little suspicious, so I am looking at this with that filter. But I think everyone should think about this sequence and ask themselves what they think it means. At the very least, it will be very interesting to look back at this if one of them is banned and we get their alignment, because I detect some definite maneuvering. I’ve noticed this trend as well, although looking at it from another filter. It does feel like there’s a bit of machining of the votes (obviously, I have no concrete proof on this, either, it’s just a gut-check). If both of these guys turn up town or PFK, we won’t have much of a result. Pedescribe also just voted for **JSexton** , putting us at 7-3, and likely saving **Hal** , if the Day ends within the next day or two (short of any massive revelations). If **Hal** turns up scum, and **JSexton** town, there does seem to be good reason to look at which voters have been key in keeping Hal out of danger. Don’t discount the possibility of **JSexton** being scum, **Hal** being town, and the vote-push for **Hal** being a semi-scum oriented one in order to provide a release valve for **JSexton**. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/829 "2008-11-11T21:09:48Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > You knew, though, that it wasn’t just you and her - the rest of us would be watching and voting. Yes, but I don’t expect anyone to vote based on vague allegations made by me. I do expect people to watch the interplay and see what comes of it. > [@](#): > > The reason my vote is still on you, though, is that after your weak gambit you tried to call her for Town. IF she wasn’t a Night actor playing dumb, the fact that she didn’t do anything at night is certainly not an indication that she’s Town. She would have had to be either a role with powers that she actually used last Night or a scum killer, not just vanilla scum. If she were vanilla scum and you pulled that gambit, ESPECIALLY since you got who she was wrong to start with, she would have responded the same way. Yet you decided she was Town? > > I’m not saying she is or isn’t Town, but you sure as hell don’t know. All you could even claim to know is that you believe, due to her reaction, that she didn’t actually do anything last Night, be she scum or be she town. This is true, to a point. However, it’s my experience that the vast majority of scum have things to do at night. Even if there’s one totally vanilla scum, that’s generally the one sent to do the kill. Taking zero actions at night is a pretty good indicator of townieness. > [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > So, when you pull a move like your gambit, I think “how awfully unlike him”. Then when you deliberately misrepresent what I said, I think “how awfully unlike him…unless he’s scum”. Take a reread of [what I actually said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10430438&postcount=729). I said that if **ok11** came back as scum/PFK, then we could “be pretty sure” that you could be trusted. If she came back as PFK, then you would almost certainly be town. If she came back as scum, then you would probably be town. Probably town, but possibly a busing scumbuddy. So we’re back to you being a smart player – smarter than your quoted line. Of course I could find a way for you to be scum. Your statement makes it sound like the concept of scum busing their buddies is completely foreign to you. Ain’t buying it. You can protest, but that big disclaimer at the end seems totally unnecessary to me. Yes, we all know what bussing is, me included. So why did you feel the need to include a disclaimer? > [@Pleonast](#): > > I’ve reread the whole **JSexton** Gambit. Here’s my opinion on the people involved: > > **Zsofia** , **Squid** , **Hal** : they seem to have Townie reactions–wondering what **JS** is accusing, accepting an either-or situation, then negative reaction at the sudden withdrawal of the accusation. > **Oredigger** , **ok** : fairly Townie bewilderment. > **JSexton** : tries one player, when that quickly fails, switches to another. Primary defense is “it’s obvious I’d get heat, so no scum would do that”. Yeah, right. Scum around here are more clever than that. Not a good excuse. So, in your opinion, not one single scum chimed in during that entire exchange. Not one. Interesting. Here’s a hypothetical for you: Say I get lynched today. With the definite knowledge of my alignment, will you still consider all five players town? * * * Regarding NBC: I’m still inclined to think of him as town, and I’m not in favor of allowing him to be modkilled. However, if it’s to be a “second lynch”, then it should be done via majority. I think we should all state our opinions on whether NBC should be sentenced to die today via his drawback, and vote in, say, yellow. If a majority says aye, then we test him. If there is no majority toDay, then we take another vote toMorrow. Does that seem like a reasonable plan? ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/830 "2008-11-11T21:11:24Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Unvote Blaster Master > > **Vote JSexton** because, thinking about it–if he doesn’t get lynched today, he won’t ever. This will be a point towards his townie cred…a good reasonf for a scum to do such an absurd idea. And I’m really not seeing why Hal is so suspicious. I think you should have more faith in Town. To me he seemed like a player ready to bet (town or scum) - and I don’t see him getting any “townie cred” right now. If he isn’t lynched… I don’t think he can take a lot of risk before everyone will remember his little trick and go for him again. And just IMHO (this is not to Pede in particular at all) - isn’t part of the fun that someone goes out on a limb and the game is suddenly taking a new turn? ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/831 "2008-11-11T21:15:28Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Regarding NBC: I’m still inclined to think of him as town, and I’m not in favor of allowing him to be modkilled. However, if it’s to be a “second lynch”, then it should be done via majority. I think we should all state our opinions on whether NBC should be sentenced to die today via his drawback, and vote in, say, yellow. If a majority says aye, then we test him. If there is no majority toDay, then we take another vote toMorrow. Does that seem like a reasonable plan? It’s Nanook, not NBC.We lynched NBC yesterday on the general understanding that Nookie’s fate would come today. Should we not reach a majority opinion either way, are you going to vote for him today in order to give him another Night to do whatever he does? Yes on double-lynching Nanook ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/832 "2008-11-11T21:20:27Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Yes on double-lynching Nanook Could we choose another color - that one is really hard to read! ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/833 "2008-11-11T21:21:11Z")
Yeesh, is it really 7-3? I’m probably supposed to vote for Hal here, but the trouble is that my read on him is leaning town. I don’t really want to see him get lynched, especially since there’s a chance that he’s a power role, and I am not. Yes, that’s a claim: straight-up vanilla. I don’t see me talking my way out of this, since even pedescribe has given up on me. Look at Shadowfacts’ timeline. It is pretty interesting, doubly so if I’m wrong about Hal. Look closely at Zeriel from here on out, as Zeriel feels too bloodthirsty to be town. Watch out for Pleonast. Pleo’s analysis is more lopsided than I’d expect. Beyond that, look to the lurkers. It’s a good bet that they are happy to sit back and watch us tear each other up. Ban Zeriel, just so my vote is in a potentially useful place. Good luck, and my apologies. PPE: Sorry, I obv meant Nanook, not NBC. My proposed plan was to mimic votes without actually casting them. Without a majority that wants him dead, I don’t think he should be killed, just like a regular lynch.I’ll put down my no on double lynching Nanook now. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/834 "2008-11-11T21:22:18Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Can you honestly say that when someone misrepresents what you said, that you’d let them skate on it? I don’t think I’d OMGUS someone who misrepresented me as mildly as JSexton did, no. Hell, my performance in this game is my cite–despite my perception of being misrepresented I haven’t taken anyone to task for it because that crap happens. [QUOTE=Hal Briston] Considering the fact that I’m piling up votes, I’d have to say that the misrepresentation was _quite_ bad. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s quite a pile. JSexton is piling up votes (and Og only knows what the crap he is), you’re just getting a few suspicious people looking at you. Taken separately, your actions are reasonable. Taken together, there’s a pattern that I frankly don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/835 "2008-11-11T21:22:26Z")
Ugh, that IS a horrible color. How about magenta? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/836 "2008-11-11T21:27:22Z")
Dawn + 50 was at the top of the hour. I reckon you all deserve a vote count.JSexton : 6 (BS PI, Zsofia, Rapier42, Hal Briston, Pleonast, Pedescribe) Hal Briston : 3 (Oredigger77, ShadowFacts, Zeriel) Zeriel : 3 (Kat, amrussell, JSexton) Blaster Master : 2 (ok11, Fretful Porpentine) Zsofia : 2 (Total Lost, Hero from Sector 7G)The sun continues to shine happily down, and the Day continues on its merry way. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/837 "2008-11-11T21:28:47Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Ugh, that IS a horrible color. How about magenta? I like that color 😉 As for Nanook - I think we should keep him alive for a while before just taking him out. So I’m for \*\* let us have one vote on Nanook toDay \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/838 "2008-11-11T21:34:13Z")
Let Nanook live. If he was scum/pfk he could have just as easily got a trickle of votes every day simply by playing suspiciously and not handing us a bubbly cauldron of WIFOM. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/839 "2008-11-11T21:35:55Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > I like that color 😉 > > As for Nanook - I think we should keep him alive for a while before just taking him out. > > So I’m for \*\* let us have one vote on Nanook toDay \*\* I didn’t vote Nanook yesterDay - so I could vote for him toDay. But I’m in a time zone where I’m going to sleep in a hour and I have a meeting all day tomorrow. I’m going to check in… but I would not be a safe bet - sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/840 "2008-11-11T21:36:23Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > You can protest, but that big disclaimer at the end seems totally unnecessary to me. Yes, we all know what bussing is, me included. So why did you feel the need to include a disclaimer? Because dealing in absolutes is generally scummy. Had I said “If **ok11** comes up as scum, then **JSexton** is town”, then I would expect to be called out for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=43)