# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/901 "2008-11-12T05:50:57Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > What I’ve given you isn’t enough? And you can’t claim that you didn’t understand things, Mr. I Hate Shoes That Look Like Demon Possession, since I’m 90% sure you at least read the Bladerunner game. > > I don’t quite get your lust for my blood ped. What exactly have I done to make you think I’m scum/pfk? Other than claiming a difficult survival requirement. Have we not learned, from game after game, that assuming things based on how you think something would/should work is bad? IE, evil necromancers in Apocolypse and Marvel that are actually town, replicants that kill that are also town in Bladerunner, scum River Tam, etc etc. As near as I can tell, that’s the entirety of your desire to see me dead is that you are sure such a restriction is either a lie or stuck on a scum/pfk. Do I look like Roosh to you, that I would lie about such a thing? I’ve played scum twice total. In neither game did I make up some elaborate ruse in order to fool people. My witch claim in Conspiracy was a straightforward false claim under duress. Note, no duress before I claimed here. > > For everyone else, I assure you that I am far more useful to Town alive than dead. Sure, letting me die would confirm me. On the other hand, dead confirmed Town don’t help nearly as much as live ones do. > > More later on everything else that’s happened Today. I can’t speak for him, but it’s really quite simple. First, I think it’s unlikely that you’re scum, so you can rest easy on that. But you DID make a bizarre and testable claim, it’s the second part that’s key, while you’re focusing on the first part. If the town has a way to test a claim, why shouldn’t we? I’m plenty happy to save you, but you haven’t given us a compelling reason to do so besides the claim that you’re more useful alive than dead. Beyond that, I don’t like the magic bag of tricks claim either. There are some cases where it’s a good idea, but this isn’t one of them. I’m not asking you to make a full claim, but so far we have absolutely no reason to believe anything you’re saying. I don’t think it’s entirely impossible that scum could have a condition that is supported by your claim (whether it is true or not), but I do think that’s unlikely. I do think it’s possible that a PFK could have a role like that which could easily just be some sort of survivor role or whatever. The point is, I’m not anywhere near suspicious enough to want to ban you, but I’m FAR away from trusting you enough to save you too. You may have a great pro-town role, but you could just as easily be the person who made the second kill last night, so without any way to differentiate, I’m happy with the testing scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/902 "2008-11-12T05:55:19Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > The other person I wanted to bring up is pedesrcibe. He’s been hard after me from the moment I claimed. It seems to me that this is the sort of thing scum would do in order to get a potentially powerful role out of the game without having to kill. This is doubly so if he’s familiar with the Bladerunner game. Further, take a look at the vote count. Zeriel was 2 behind Jsexton. Then pedescribe unvoted Sexton and voted Zeriel. Just like that the person that was msot likely to be lynched is now just one vote away from surviving. I’m wondering if ped is trying to save a scum buddy. Umm… isn’t **Pedescribe** one of the Charter Members? So, unless you have a good reason to believe the Charter Members aren’t who they say they are, this is a moot point. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/903 "2008-11-12T06:05:03Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > I STRONGLY encourage you all not to vote for him, and while I don’t generally like to suggest actions to power roles, I really hope we’ve got a Vig to give him some attention Tonight, because if not, I think we’re going to have to deal with him Tomorrow. A Vig should only target him if lives through the Day without any votes. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/904 "2008-11-12T06:07:13Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > To continue with my train of thought from before, note once again that as soon as **JSexton** loses the lead, he gets put right back on top. > > Hey **Nanook** , why do you make the choice only between **JSexton** and **Zeriel**? See what you did there? You said you’re not sure that **JSexton** is scum, but that IF the choice was between him and **Zeriel** , you’d vote for him, and then you do. But why was your choice only between the two of them? Why not **pedescribe** , who you seem much surer of? If the day ends in a tie, **JSexton** would still be banned since he got the lead first, so why did you need to break the tie? Seriously, does no one keep track of who the Masons are? **Pedescribe** , **Oredigger** , **amrussell** … don’t vote for them. BAD IDEA! ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/905 "2008-11-12T10:59:06Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Oh hey, I missed this the first time through. Too many posts coming in when I’m running around trying to catch up. Thankfully Boozy caught it. > > At the time you posted this ok11, Jsexton was NOT far ahead. At the top of the page vote count Jsexton had a 2 vote lead on Zeriel, however pedescribe had changed that to a tie 20 mintues before you posted. If you think Jsexton is scummy, you should vote for him, period. QFT ok11, this goes 2 ways for me, either you want him lynched but are hoping to stay off the vote charts, OR you don’t want him lynched but want to look like you do. Both these interpretations make you scum in my eyes, **Ban ok11** no-one vote for Nanook I would have expected more info from Nanook today, either night action results or a fuller claim. Without either of these I am OK with testing his vote survival restriction ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/906 "2008-11-12T11:24:08Z")
Man, this time-zone stuff is going to be a killer. Still it’s good we’re getting participation. Quickly: no votes for Nanook Obviously taking a risk, but in the worst-case scenario, we’ll at least be able to look at the vote patterns from Day 1with new info. Happy with my vote still. On a separate note, can we be careful with the references to past games? Not everyone’s played them and from the outside “It’s just like that guy in that game that time” is not remotely informative. Reference to “shoe problems” might as well be double-dutch. Keeping up with this game is work enough - having to read three or four others just to understand what people are saying in this one is a somewhat daunting prospect. And thanks to **Blam** for starting the Mason Protection League. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/907 "2008-11-12T13:57:03Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > However, for vote analysis purposes consider this a vote for **Jsexton** And now let’s make it official, **Ban JSexton** Explanation will follow (hopefully) shortly, but I want to get this out there now, in case the Day ends at 9am. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/908 "2008-11-12T14:07:18Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > Man, this time-zone stuff is going to be a killer. Still it’s good we’re getting participation. Quickly: > > no votes for Nanook > > Obviously taking a risk, but in the worst-case scenario, we’ll at least be able to look at the vote patterns from Day 1with new info. > > Happy with my vote still. > > On a separate note, can we be careful with the references to past games? Not everyone’s played them and from the outside “It’s just like that guy in that game that time” is not remotely informative. Reference to “shoe problems” might as well be double-dutch. Keeping up with this game is work enough - having to read three or four others just to understand what people are saying in this one is a somewhat daunting prospect. > > And thanks to **Blam** for starting the Mason Protection League. I try to fully explain my references in my posts, but I’ll keep this in mind. And as for the shoe thing: In a Chinese based game, there were three enemies: the Wei, the Shu, and the …uh… something else, and each one had a town doctor that could protect against that particular group. However, each doctor was unable to claim, on risk of losing their powers. So when Blaster Master was faced with the rope, he composed a loong post where, among other things, he was the Master Debator, and HE! HATED! SHOES! (Shoes=Shus). Then, later, in the Apocalypse game, there were two players who were going to die by day 4 if they were not exorcised by a power role. They were unable to claim, but could hint at it. So Hal said that he had shoe problems, and that he needed a shoehorn. That’s where that particular term comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/909 "2008-11-12T14:09:22Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > On a separate note, can we be careful with the references to past games? Not everyone’s played them and from the outside “It’s just like that guy in that game that time” is not remotely informative. Reference to “shoe problems” might as well be double-dutch. Keeping up with this game is work enough - having to read three or four others just to understand what people are saying in this one is a somewhat daunting prospect. Allow me to explain. I wasn’t in the game, but it’s a reference to the Three Kingdoms off-board game. In that, there was a scum faction for each kingdom (Wu, Shu, and Wei) and there was a pro-town investigator for each one that had a restriction such that a truthful claim would render that player powerless. To try to get around this, the pro-town Shu investigator **Roosh** claimed that he hated shoes. Of course, the gambit failed because the moderator decided it should be interpretted as a truthful claim and he lost his powers. Either way, since then, having a Shoe Problem has been used to reference a post restriction that prevents a truthful claim. > [@](#): > > And thanks to **Blam** for starting the Mason Protection League. It’s really frustrating to see discussion completely wasted discussing suspicious actions that the Masonry is doing. Sure, you all aren’t 100% confirmed, but any posts smudging a Mason without addressing why they claim you all have made is just silly. Sure, I’m not seeing it as a scum-motivated action, because scum have no reason to do that, so it’s a mistake that anyone is equally likely to make as a mistake, but it DOES have an anti-town result because it results in unnecessary noise. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/910 "2008-11-12T14:12:11Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Seriously, does no one keep track of who the Masons are? > > **Pedescribe** , **Oredigger** , **amrussell** … don’t vote for them. BAD IDEA! I’m well aware of that, **Blaster** , but as you noted, \*\*Nanook \*\*either is not or doesn’t seem to care. I wasn’t advocating that he vote for **pedescribe** , I was trying to get him talking about that post. This is what he said about \*\*pede \*\*when voting for **JSexton** : [QUOTE=Nanook] The other person I wanted to bring up is pedesrcibe. He’s been hard after me from the moment I claimed. It seems to me that this is the sort of thing scum would do in order to get a potentially powerful role out of the game without having to kill. This is doubly so if he’s familiar with the Bladerunner game. Further, take a look at the vote count. Zeriel was 2 behind Jsexton. Then pedescribe unvoted Sexton and voted Zeriel. Just like that the person that was msot likely to be lynched is now just one vote away from surviving. I’m wondering if ped is trying to save a scum buddy. [/QUOTE] He’s throwing mud on \*\*pedescribe \*\*to raise suspicion on **JSexton**. Why is that, you might ask yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/911 "2008-11-12T14:12:41Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > I try to fully explain my references in my posts, but I’ll keep this in mind. > > And as for the shoe thing: In a Chinese based game, there were three enemies: the Wei, the Shu, and the …uh… something else, and each one had a town doctor that could protect against that particular group. However, each doctor was unable to claim, on risk of losing their powers. So when Blaster Master was faced with the rope, he composed a loong post where, among other things, he was the Master Debator, and HE! HATED! SHOES! (Shoes=Shus). > > Then, later, in the Apocalypse game, there were two players who were going to die by day 4 if they were not exorcised by a power role. They were unable to claim, but could hint at it. So Hal said that he had shoe problems, and that he needed a shoehorn. > > That’s where that particular term comes from. Eh, was it doctors? I don’t remember since I wasn’t in it. I’d also forgotten about the Apocalypse part. I’d thought it had come up in Batman. Doesn’t matter. Either way, just for the sake of posterity, I do want to make sure that credit isn’t unduly given to me for the original Shoe reference. I’m pretty sure it was **Roosh**. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/912 "2008-11-12T14:19:08Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I’m well aware of that, **Blaster** , but as you noted, \*\*Nanook \*\*either is not or doesn’t seem to care. I wasn’t advocating that he vote for **pedescribe** , I was trying to get him talking about that post. This is what he said about \*\*pede \*\*when voting for **JSexton** : > > He’s throwing mud on \*\*pedescribe \*\*to raise suspicion on **JSexton**. Why is that, you might ask yourself. Fair enough. As I said, I don’t necessarily see it as a scum tell, since it’s possible someone has mixed up notes _cough_ **JSexton** _cough_. Still, I would have thought the natural response, were you aware of it, would have simply been more of a “dude, he’s a mason, why you smuding him?” Either way, my whole point was, I just want to get people throwing suspicion on the masons to realize they screwed up and stop. ---
**Author:** ![Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc8723/32.png) [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanook_of_the_North_Shore)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/913 "2008-11-12T14:20:06Z")
Actually it was Roosh, not Blam, that hated shoes originally. Pedescribe, let me apologize to you too. (I seem to be doing that a lot this game.) I didn’t indicate the masons on my notes and forgot that you were one. This is why I suck when I’m town. I’m terrible at making cases against people, and at least half the time when I’m sure someone is scum they aren’t, and vice versa. I prefer being scum where I can use the extra knowledge to attack other people’s cases as necessary and just try and defend myself. I might as well open up my magic bag. My powers are…non-existant. But what about all those hints you were dropping I hear you say? I was trying to get the scum to NK me, since I’m much more useful to Town as a sacrificial lamb taking them away from killing someone useful. Why do that? Because really, I’m on a clock here. Best case scenario, I could survive what, 6 or 7 more Days max? Better to try and convince the scum I make a good NK target and waste one on me. Obviously this has backfired in a paticularly heinous way. I’m sure now half of you will be screaming to lynch me, under the idea of lynch all liars and all that, but that would be a mislynch I think, simply because I’m going to die before much longer anyways. But not Today. **Unvote Jsexton Vote Nanook of the North Shore Unvote Nanook of the North Shore Vote JSexton** Yes, I can vote for myself and have it count. I didn’t want to use it this early, but you do what you gotta do ya know. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/914 "2008-11-12T14:20:28Z")
First, I’ll answer questions about the non-blue vote post. Something unexpected came up in real life, and it prevented me from participating in the game for a while. (Please trust me on that; making up something like that is poor sportsmanship, and I’d never do it) I didn’t want to let the Day end without input, but I didn’t have time to catch up on what has happened since the last time I posted. I mainly logged on to see whether **Blaster Master** posted (and if so, unvote him) and get a replacement vote out there. The trouble is that I was running really late, and writing my post took much longer than I expected. In the end, I didn’t have time to go back and check what was happening with the votes. I thought **JSexton** was 2 votes in the lead (so it would take 3 votes to get someone else banned). I decided to use **amrussell** ’s idea about not voting for someone who’s too far ahead. Mainly, I didn’t make the vote official, because I didn’t know what I’ve already missed, and what I was going to miss during the rest of the day and at night. So if something significant happened, I didn’t want my vote to prevent whatever the town decided to do. For example, if **JSexton** role claimed, or if someone else made a huge slip, I didn’t want the fact that I wasn’t around to unvote slow down the process. If the Day ended before I got caught up, I was planning to make an “unofficial amended vote count,” so it’s not like my non-blue-vote would go unnoticed. (I’m almost completely caught up now, so expect more posts from me soon.) ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/915 "2008-11-12T14:25:26Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > I might as well open up my magic bag. My powers are…non-existant. But what about all those hints you were dropping I hear you say? I was trying to get the scum to NK me, since I’m much more useful to Town as a sacrificial lamb taking them away from killing someone useful. Why do that? Because really, I’m on a clock here. Best case scenario, I could survive what, 6 or 7 more Days max? Better to try and convince the scum I make a good NK target and waste one on me. Obviously this has backfired in a paticularly heinous way. I’m sure now half of you will be screaming to lynch me, under the idea of lynch all liars and all that, but that would be a mislynch I think, simply because I’m going to die before much longer anyways. But not Today. > > **Unvote Jsexton > Vote Nanook of the North Shore > Unvote Nanook of the North Shore > Vote JSexton** > > Yes, I can vote for myself and have it count. I didn’t want to use it this early, but you do what you gotta do ya know. So your role has a downside but no upside. Hmm not seen that before. DOn’t believe you. The only question is do we lynch you today, lynch you tomorrow or just not vote for you tomorrow then lynch you the next day. As there is the chance you are a killing role I am up for offing you right now. What does everyone else think? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/916 "2008-11-12T14:33:07Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > Yes, I can vote for myself and have it count. I didn’t want to use it this early, but you do what you gotta do ya know. Please state as clearly as you can the reasons you think **JSexton** is scum and why you are voting for him. Thank you in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/917 "2008-11-12T14:37:47Z")
I’m WIFOMing Nanook now–I want to vote for him based on Lynch all Liars, but I don’t want to keep his ass alive if he actually can’t vote for himself. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/918 "2008-11-12T14:39:52Z")
[http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=rottk&action=display&thread=254&page=10#16659](http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=rottk&action=display&thread=254&page=10#16659) Read this now if you have not. **Og** has spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/919 "2008-11-12T14:43:12Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > So your role has a downside but no upside. Hmm not seen that before. DOn’t believe you. The only question is do we lynch you today, lynch you tomorrow or just not vote for you tomorrow then lynch you the next day. As there is the chance you are a killing role I am up for offing you right now. What does everyone else think? You’re kidding, right? You’ve never seen a Miller, a town role that investigates as scum? You’ve never seen a compulsory Vig (true, it -can- have an upside, but doesn’t more often than not)? You’ve never seen a Paranoid Doc (which, again, has a bit of an upside, but is quite mitigated? [I’m thinking of the type that has a 50/50 shot of protecting or killing their target, not the kind that blocks and protects]). You’ve never seen Lovers who don’t know each other (and therefore aren’t confirmable)? And, **Total Lost** ’s favorite, you’ve never seen a Sore Jawed James Bond, who is instantly mod killed if he makes any post in the game? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/920 "2008-11-12T14:44:20Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > [http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=rottk&action=display&thread=254&page=10#16659](http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=rottk&action=display&thread=254&page=10#16659) > > Read this now if you have not. **Og** has spoken. For those reading this, **Wang Chung** was the name of the Vanilla Townies in this game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=47)