# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/981 "2008-11-12T21:39:30Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I can’t speak for the group but at least my answer to this is that his vote for himself shouldn’t count, in which case we are able to get a two-for today. If we switch over there may not be enough time for him to garner enough votes to die but it may be enough for him to live through the night by adding a new vote to him. > > That being said I’m not entirely happy with our two main lynch candidates and since my vote has already been on him it should allow him to survive so I can be convinced to change directions. This is my reasoning as well. We can still mostly test his claim and we have no idea if we have enough time to switch. If we get caught in between the switch, I’d hate to see someone like **Oredigger** get screwed for voting for him and then being an elligible target if my hunch is correct. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/982 "2008-11-12T21:42:11Z")
**Another option for dealing with Nanook:** If **Nanook** is alive Tomorrow, we go about business as usual, with one exception. Instead of placing our votes in blue, we vote in magenta. Unvoting can be done in magenta as well, as long as it’s clearly indicated that this is an unvote/unban. The only exception is **Nanook**. If **Nanook** is truly pro-town, he will be willing to vote for himself again in blue. As a result, there’s only one vote on the official vote count, and he gets banned. If **Nanook** refuses to vote for himself, whoever is the top magenta vote-getter at the end of - let’s say, for instance 45 hours – votes for **Nanook** in blue. This way, the risk of getting **Nanook** ed falls on the player we consider scummiest Tomorrow. Also, if **Nanook** turns out to be the Jester, we won’t have to guess who got recruited. In return for taking on the risk, the person voting for **Nanook** gets tiny brownie points, because he/she is helping the town. If the top magenta vote-getter refuses to vote, or accidentally/conveniently can’t do so for some reason, then the next leading vote getter has to do it. We’ll be able to look for scum, and have an unofficial magenta vote record to see where everyone’s suspicions lie. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/983 "2008-11-12T21:48:04Z")
I think your plan is ingenious and novel. I don’t think it will ever work. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/984 "2008-11-12T21:50:03Z")
**Santo Rugger** , thanks. I figured as much, but it was worth a shot. > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > No, I’m calling a scum gambit on you for dropping the breadcrumb in the first place before any of the masons were revealed, not for trying to trap potentially lying masons after the mechanic of their power was revealed. Have you taken into consideration that it _wasn’t_ a breadcrumb? Several people were speculating about roles, and I was just doing the same thing. I had no way of knowing whether I’m right. It only looks like a breadcrumb in hindsight because masons really turned out to be Charter Members. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/985 "2008-11-12T21:52:08Z")
Posting to say I’m still alive, but haven’t had time to fully read until now. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/986 "2008-11-12T22:03:26Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I can’t speak for the group but at least my answer to this is that his vote for himself shouldn’t count, in which case we are able to get a two-for today. If we switch over there may not be enough time for him to garner enough votes to die but it may be enough for him to live through the night by adding a new vote to him. > > That being said I’m not entirely happy with our two main lynch candidates and since my vote has already been on him it should allow him to survive so I can be convinced to change directions. I don’t think there’s any chance that he will die due to his ability today. If his own vote didn’t count, then there’s absolutely no reason to place it, as it doesn’t help his case any. The only thing it might do is prop up his case if he is completely lying about his restriction…but how likely is that? ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/987 "2008-11-12T22:14:59Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The only thing it might do is prop up his case if he is completely lying about his restriction…but how likely is that? Insufficient data. The possiblity must be considered, because we can’t rule it out. If I’d made up a condition like the one he’s claiming, I’d definitely vote for myself “to keep me alive”. This doesn’t prove he made it up, but we’ve got zero evidence that he didn’t, either. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/988 "2008-11-12T22:27:07Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Insufficient data. The possiblity must be considered, because we can’t rule it out. > > If I’d made up a condition like the one he’s claiming, I’d definitely vote for myself “to keep me alive”. This doesn’t prove he made it up, but we’ve got zero evidence that he didn’t, either. But we’ve strayed from the point. I was arguing for lynching him today instead of waiting until tomorrow. 3 possibilities: [ul] [li]He made up his condition. He will live today.[/li][li]His condition is true, and voting for himself works: He will live today.[/li][li]His condition is true, and voting for himself doesn’t work: He will die today.[/li][/ul] If he is truthful, there was no point to voting himself unless that vote saves him. If it doesn’t, it makes far more sense to try and convince someone else to vote him. The reason Oredigger gave for waiting was the possibility that he’ll die today anyway. I think that is exceedingly remote, and not worth factoring in. If the majority of players are worried that he has a kill, _there is no reason to give him a night in which to use it._ ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/989 "2008-11-12T22:34:14Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > I don’t understand why both you and **pedescribe** think we should all vote for **Nanook**. Since he self-voted to save himself (which might not even work), I think he wasn’t lying about his survival condition. So wouldn’t it make more sense not to vote for him at all Tomorrow? Point taken. Sounds good. > [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Like he said, it’d be evidence, but it wouldn’t be confirming. It’s possible there are three killing factions, one of whom was blocked, chose not to kill, or doubled up. > > But for the most part, you’re right. > > What I think we should do is completely ignore him. Don’t vote for him at all. If he makes it through the Night, nobody votes for him Tomorrow. If he makes it through Night 3, we lynch him on Day 4. But we should really quit wasting posts on it. Agreed. DNFTT. > [@ok11](#): > > It’s [based on](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Domenico-Scandella-Known-Menocchio-Inquisition/dp/0866981489) **Menocchio** , who is a Charter Member. Ah, interesting. Menocchico. I played with her once. She got sick and got sicced on. It wasn’t pretty. I like waffles. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/990 "2008-11-12T22:40:21Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The reason Oredigger gave for waiting was the possibility that he’ll die today anyway. I think that is exceedingly remote, and not worth factoring in. If the majority of players are worried that he has a kill, _there is no reason to give him a night in which to use it._ Ah, and agreed. I don’t think he’ll die at Dusk today either. I want to wait on his lynch because I don’t think there’s a high chance of him killing, and I want to test the existence of a Vig. If anyone can demostrate that he’s a likely killer, I agree that we should consider a switch. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/991 "2008-11-12T23:24:14Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > But we’ve strayed from the point. I was arguing for lynching him today instead of waiting until tomorrow. 3 possibilities: > > [ul] > [li]He made up his condition. He will live today.[/li][li]His condition is true, and voting for himself works: He will live today.[/li][li]His condition is true, and voting for himself doesn’t work: He will die today.[/li][/ul] > > If he is truthful, there was no point to voting himself unless that vote saves him. If it doesn’t, it makes far more sense to try and convince someone else to vote him. > > The reason Oredigger gave for waiting was the possibility that he’ll die today anyway. I think that is exceedingly remote, and not worth factoring in. If the majority of players are worried that he has a kill, _there is no reason to give him a night in which to use it._ Well, and not to mention, lynching him would save your neck. Just an ancillary benefit for you. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/992 "2008-11-12T23:40:35Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, and not to mention, lynching him would save your neck. Just an ancillary benefit for you. To be fair, he did mention this. > [@JSexton](#): > > (I realize this sounds self-serving, since I’m on the block at the moment.) Think about what I suggested, though, and the logic of preventing Nanook from having even a single night in which to act. There’s nothing stopping you from lynching me tomorrow, after all. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/993 "2008-11-12T23:55:04Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Ah, and agreed. I don’t think he’ll die at Dusk today either. I want to wait on his lynch because I don’t think there’s a high chance of him killing, and I want to test the existence of a Vig. > > If anyone can demostrate that he’s a likely killer, I agree that we should consider a switch. But if he’s not a likely killer, then why are we rushing to kill him? He hasn’t done anything scummy, aside from the claim itself. That’s what I don’t understand. If he’s a killer, we should kill him first. If he’s not, then why kill him at all? > [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, and not to mention, lynching him would save your neck. Just an ancillary benefit for you. “Not to mention”? I _did_ mention it, in the same post where I suggested it. Attack the argument, not the arguer. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/994 "2008-11-12T23:58:13Z")
Sorry, I missed where you said that. Mea culpa. If he isn’t a killer, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have other nefarious powers. I feel fairly strong about not wasting a lynch, though - either let a Vig take him out or let his condition take him out, and if neither happens then we can lynch him. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/995 "2008-11-12T23:59:41Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I think the idea there is to safeguard ourselves against the possibility that something bad happens to someone on Nanook’s lynching wagon, first, last, third, whatever. By having Masons organize the roster, it minimizes the ability of scum to avoid being in the crosshairs of a possible Princess role. > > Regarding the possibility of a Jester, the town is almost always told of the Jester’s presence. We can’t be paralyzed by that remote possibility. I object to having the masons organize a random list because their knowledge is no better or worse than anyone elses. My suggestion, if we’re goin to mass lynch him at any point, would be to have EVERYONE vote for him, with the exception of confirmed townies like the masons and anyone else that may pop up. That way, rather than potentially having a doctor or some other valuable role in a small pool of say 5-7 people, he’s in as large of a pool as possible. Then you also easily get to see who does and doesn’t with that plan and why. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/996 "2008-11-13T00:05:17Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I don’t think there’s any chance that he will die due to his ability today. If his own vote didn’t count, then there’s absolutely no reason to place it, as it doesn’t help his case any. The only thing it might do is prop up his case if he is completely lying about his restriction…but how likely is that? > [@JSexton](#): > > But we’ve strayed from the point. I was arguing for lynching him today instead of waiting until tomorrow. 3 possibilities: > > [ul] > [li]He made up his condition. He will live today.[/li][li]His condition is true, and voting for himself works: He will live today.[/li][li]His condition is true, and voting for himself doesn’t work: He will die today.[/li][/ul] > > If he is truthful, there was no point to voting himself unless that vote saves him. If it doesn’t, it makes far more sense to try and convince someone else to vote him. > > The reason Oredigger gave for waiting was the possibility that he’ll die today anyway. I think that is exceedingly remote, and not worth factoring in. If the majority of players are worried that he has a kill, _there is no reason to give him a night in which to use it._ There is a fourth option that you forgot his condition is true and he hopes that by voting for himself he will encourage some people to try to lynch him today generating new votes so he lives. There has been some talk about trying to lynch him today so this isn’t an unreasonable idea. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/997 "2008-11-13T00:06:49Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > But if he’s not a likely killer, then why are we rushing to kill him? He hasn’t done anything scummy, aside from the claim itself. > > That’s what I don’t understand. If he’s a killer, we should kill him first. If he’s not, then why kill him at all? Because I don’t think he’s Town, and therefore probably needs to die for Town to win. Because once his alignment is known, we can get down to some real analysis. Because he’s proven no benefit to Town, and is taking up post space. The only reason I don’t wanna whack him right now is because giving a Vig a shot at him obviates the voting question and provides even more useful info. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/998 "2008-11-13T01:07:40Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I object to having the masons organize a random list because their knowledge is no better or worse than anyone elses. My suggestion, if we’re goin to mass lynch him at any point, would be to have EVERYONE vote for him, with the exception of confirmed townies like the masons and anyone else that may pop up. That way, rather than potentially having a doctor or some other valuable role in a small pool of say 5-7 people, he’s in as large of a pool as possible. Then you also easily get to see who does and doesn’t with that plan and why. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/999 "2008-11-13T07:18:20Z")
FYI, you will notice a drop in my participation over the next few days, this is because Wrath of the Lich King came out. I’ll still try to make a few posts a day, just not at the level I’ve been up to since I’ve been back. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1000 "2008-11-13T08:01:02Z")
The day started a bit quietly. The sun of the arena fired up on schedule, glowing brightly in the sky as the posters fighting for the soul of the Dope reconvened on their virtual battleground. Many seemed subdued; perhaps the shock of the meatspace election, and perhaps the fact that three of their own, including the beloved Tuba Smarties, had been removed from the battlefield. Accusations and arguments sprung up here and there, with debaters looking for an opening. Suddenly, with a flourish, attention centred on ok11, accused of nefarious Night actions. When she calmly denied it and no evidence was forthcoming, attention began to focus on her accuser, JSexton. Another knot of debate formed around Zeriel, the two parties growing in size slowly. The hubbub of argument increased as debate raged over whether Nanook was trustworthy or not and whether he should be a candidate or not. Suddenly the voice of Oredigger77 cut across the arena. “Hey man – look what I found. This is so cool!” Looking up they saw him cradling a futuristic-looking weapon. “A Death Ray!” gasped nineteen people. Oredigger nodded. “Yeah. A genuine 1928 model Death Ray. And - I’m gonna kill Hal with it.” So saying, he swung the weapon in that direction. Before he could fire, though, he was surrounded by people demanding he shoot their candidate of _their_ choice, instead of Hal. In the press of the crowd, with no clear shot, Oredigger held his fire. Then someone grabbed for the gun, and the struggle was on. Back and forth the muzzle swung, pointing at Hal briefly, and Blaster Master lying on a sunlounger, before settling down to a tussle between those who wanted JSexton dead, and those who wanted Zeriel out of the power struggle. The ray swung back and forth as players joined the struggle. At one point Nanook demanded that he be shot by the ray, but recanted immediately afterwards, rejoining the players crying for the bannination of JSexton. As the Day reached the end of its 85th hour, the inevitable happened and someone accidentally pressed the discharge button, causing a momentary overload of the power supply. When emergency power was brought up it was discovered that **JSexton, aka Respectful Boundary, a Member of the SD (Town)**, had been removed from the debate. Night begins now. The power and voting systems are on the fritz again. Expected repair time is 48 hours. Residual light from the now inoperative Sun means that you can continue debating until 5am EST (two hours from the timestamp of this post). After that no more strategy until Dawn. Sweet dreams, everyone. And if you have a Night action, remember to send it to **Og** and I. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=51)