# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1161 "2008-11-18T00:09:42Z")
I re-read. Not a lot is jumping out at me. I don’t have much to say in my defense that I haven’t already said. Reading Hero’s last post, it does kinda jump out at me a bit that there’s a block of people who voted for JSexton yesterDay who have jumped on me today–three of the four votes on me, in fact, are moves over from JSexton. IF Hal is being protected, there’s a potential scum block, since voting to lynch me doesn’t look too bad with my alignment unknown to the town at large. If Hal turns out to be town, then none of that is worth anything, of course, since he’s clearly not actually being protected. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1162 "2008-11-18T00:23:20Z")
Again, you had more votes than **Hal** yesterday. Am I misreading something somewhere? Why am I the only one seeing this? How the heck would a vote on **JSexton** protect Hal, when you were next in line? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1163 "2008-11-18T02:23:33Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Again, you had more votes than **Hal** yesterday. Am I misreading something somewhere? Why am I the only one seeing this? How the heck would a vote on **JSexton** protect Hal, when you were next in line? OK, I’m back, still feeling like shit, but I feel obligated to get to this point, as I promised I would. **Hero** , please don’t take this the wrong way, but I think your analysis of the voting yesterDay is overly simplistic. You look at the end result and say that since **JSexton** was in the lead and **Zeriel** was 2nd, if any protecting was going on, it was for **Zeriel**. But look who was voting for **JSexton** after **Hal** went out of contention (after **Pleo’s** vote took **JSex** 2 votes ahead): **pedescribe** , who was Town; **Nanook** , who was PFK and presumably was not aligned with the main scum group; and **ok11** , who voted last and whose vote technically had no effect, since **JSexton** would have been lynched anyway. So…I’m not seeing anything there. I saw it earlier in the sequence, when **Hal** was in possible contention to take the lead. Here’s what I think happened yesterDay: **JSexton** played his gambit, and when he admitted he was lying, a bunch of people jumped all over him, including - I am certain - some scum. I’m positive at least one of those 4 who voted for him quickly are scum. Why am I positive? Because he was an easy target. When I have played scum, that kind of play is like manna from heaven, because you can attack without hesitation for good reason (“lynch all liars”). Example: in the T-2 game I was scum, and **Santo Rugger** - for reasons I still don’t understand - disagreed with me when I stated that we needed everyone to provide substantive reasons for our votes. It was like early Xmas - I got to play the high road and say that **Santo** was playing anti-town (which he was, IMO!!). I didn’t get him lynched over that - there was too much other stuff going on - but I got a LOT of suspicion on him because of that. So, if I were scum in this game, I probably would have jumped on **JSexton** , too. (This is not to say that all those who voted for **JSexton** were scum - I’m sure they were not). But the **JSexton** train began to slow down, because of his own explanations and some defense by mostly-confirmed **amrussell**. At the same time, **Hal** (and **Zeriel** , yes) began to catch up and close the gap. So a few more votes were needed to seal that deal. And seal the deal they did. Can I prove this is what happened? Not definitively. I could be wrong, but I’ve laid out the vote sequence and given my best analysis of what I think happened. But given the reaction toDay, I don’t think I’m wrong. Because the criticisms of my timeline have been…obfuscatory, I believe is the best word. Here’s what I mean: After I laid out my case originally, this is what I get in response - [QUOTE=Hero] Shadow, I partially agree with your premise. However, it feels like there is this sentiment developing than anyone who comes out against a lynch leader in 48+ hours has a scum motive. It is a WIFOM argument that needs to stop. You and amrussel have all come forth this morning saying you didn’t like the JSexton bandwagon but you weren’t vocal about it yesterday. Why not? [/QUOTE] Note that the first criticism is a vague “sentiment” argument that does not rebut any of the specific claims I made, just tries to put my strategy of vote analysis in question. The second criticism is a complete falsehood. I asked **Hero** to defend this, showing how I was vocal about arguing against the **JSexton** lynch, and he responded that I wasn’t arguing against a **JSexton** lynch, but just “attack[ing] Hal.” I then showed that this, too, was a lie, to which he never responded. (See post 1103). [QUOTE=Hero] The closest Hal got to being vote leader was two away. [/QUOTE] **Hero** is not the only one who has said this, but it is also simply not true. When **Zeriel** voted for **Hal** , it was **JSexton** 4, **Zeriel** 3, **Hal** 3. I’ve posted this multiple times. [QUOTE=Boozahol] While I know you’ve had a hard-on for a Hal lynch all game long (where’s MHaye’s speech about not dragging old grudges into new games when you need it?), it seems like you’re tinting this far too much with your anti-Hal lenses. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Hal] Back from the weekend, and surprise surprise, ShadowFacts is riding me (must be a Mafia game). [/QUOTE] Here’s an attempt to make it seem like I’ve got some kind of vendetta against **Hal**. As I explained to **Boozie** , IIRC the last time I played with **Hal** we were scumbuddies. I have no grudge against **Hal** whatsoever, and I’ve never carried a grudge from one game to another on _anyone_. This is pure obfuscation. In short, I think I’m right, and I think the arguments against me have been spurious, wrong, and obfuscatory. And now **Hero** has even voted for me, which is total crap. **Hero** , what do you think I have to gain as scum by being this vocal against **Hal**? If we lynch him and he’s Town, I’m toast. Why would scummy me want a trade like that? But I’m more than willing to put it to the test. But now, I must go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1164 "2008-11-18T02:29:11Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Again, you had more votes than **Hal** yesterday. Am I misreading something somewhere? Why am I the only one seeing this? How the heck would a vote on **JSexton** protect Hal, when you were next in line? I’m not arguing that Hal’s being directly protected, necessarily, I’m just pointing out that there’s a potential pattern in that block of votes. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1165 "2008-11-18T03:25:06Z")
I want my vote somewhere that it will make a difference, so: **Unvote Pleonast** I’m also seeing voting patterns toDay that look a lot like the ones yesterday – early push on **Hal** , followed by several people jumping in and voting **Zeriel** to tie things up. I think this most likely points to Hal being scum and Zeriel town (although honestly, I wouldn’t discount the possibility that they’re _both_ town and the scum are laughing themselves silly right now). **Vote Hal Briston** ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1166 "2008-11-18T03:34:15Z")
Uh… if someone is at 4 votes, and the other person at 3, it takes TWO votes to put them into lynch leader. Stop telling us we are lying and think for a moment please. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1167 "2008-11-18T04:18:20Z")
Not necessarily. It could also be done by an unvote/vote combination (either by the same person, or 2 separate people). ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1168 "2008-11-18T05:06:03Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Here’s what I think happened yesterDay: **JSexton** played his gambit, and when he admitted he was lying, a bunch of people jumped all over him, including - I am certain - some scum. I’m positive at least one of those 4 who voted for him quickly are scum. Why am I positive? Because he was an easy target. When I have played scum, that kind of play is like manna from heaven, because you can attack without hesitation for good reason (“lynch all liars”). Example: in the T-2 game I was scum, and **Santo Rugger** - for reasons I still don’t understand - disagreed with me when I stated that we needed everyone to provide substantive reasons for our votes. It was like early Xmas - I got to play the high road and say that **Santo** was playing anti-town (which he was, IMO!!). I didn’t get him lynched over that - there was too much other stuff going on - but I got a LOT of suspicion on him because of that. So, if I were scum in this game, I probably would have jumped on **JSexton** , too. (This is not to say that all those who voted for **JSexton** were scum - I’m sure they were not). Can… not… resist… defending… past… self. Agh! In that game it didn’t matter for Vanilla, because pretty much the entire Vanilla pool had to be lynched, and then the confirmed townies could be sorted through to find the recruit. I had accepted my fate. But you bring up a very good point. If you were using someone else as an example, I would very strongly agree with the quoted part of your post. As is, I only agree quite strongly. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1169 "2008-11-18T05:08:22Z")
Does anybody have an unofficial vote count? ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1170 "2008-11-18T07:53:23Z")
This **Hal** / **Zeriel** issue is just making me feel very uncomfortable. I don’t like it when people go: If **Hal** is scum then **Zeriel** must be Town or vice versa… What if they are both Town? We lynch one toDay and go after the other one ToMorrow?? I don’t have anyone of them as really scummy right now - and I’m not going to vote for them at this point. I know that means my vote (yet again) will not be on a lynch-leading-candadate, but I’ll not play into the hands of scum. **Vote Hero** For just being the one most scummy in my point of view… (I think I already gave my reasons - but I will elaborate if anyone wants me too [like maybe Hero???]) ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1171 "2008-11-18T08:21:13Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > If I’m counting this right, **Hal** is leading with 4 (ShadowFacts, Zsofia, Oredigger, Zeriel) , tied with **Zeriel** also at 4 (Kat, Boozahol, Pleonast, Ok11) > > Compare that with yesterday’s vote > JSexton : 7 (BS PI, Zsofia, Rapier42, Hal Briston, Pleonast, Nanook o/t North Shore, ok11) > Zeriel : 6 (Kat, amrussell, JSexton, Hero from Sector 7G, Pedescrobe, Blaster Master) > Hal Briston : 3 (Oredigger, ShadowFacts, Zeriel) > > If **Shadow** ’s earlier claim that **Hal** was being protected I am really curios to hear any views again on who is doing the protecting, especially in light of today’s votes. I just can’t see a pattern that will help us tomorrow. > > What I do see is a block of three votes on **Hal** that is the same as yesterday. These votes manifested themselves today as **Zeriel** also gained votes. This morning **Shadow** said nothing about how yesterday **Zeriel** had the same conditions as **Hal**. Watching a similar sequence of events unfold today has left me very uneasy about Shadow. > > Vote ShadowFacts > > – > > These 48 hours went by too quick and there wasn’t a whole lot of discussion, especially from some repeat offenders. I was sitting on my hands hoping to get a little more input from people but it doesn’t look like that is going to happen. > > These are the lowest participants in this thread by post count. > > 28 - Kat > 25 - ShadowFacts > 24 - Fretful Porpentine > 20 - One And Only Wanderers > > Of those, OAOW is the only person to not even bothering to place a vote today. > > FOS: One and Only Wanderers > > I’m also really hoping to see everyone else put their votes in. We need that information, even if it doesn’t impact the lynch. it’s not a question of not being bothered, it’s a question of the day could end at any second, so I want a strong feel before I vote. I’m not going to pile on a wagon just because it’s a wagon, when day coule end any time. However, I can see where the voting record is important, so, to make sure I’m at least on the record, I will go with the same person I voted yesterday **Ban ok11** I still think his voting but not voting of JSexton was scummy. Slightly more so now that JS came up town. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1172 "2008-11-18T09:37:12Z")
By my count the votes are: Hal: 5 (Shadow, Zsofia, Oredigger77, Zeriel, Fretful Porpentine) Zeriel: 4 (Kat, Boozahol, Pleonast, OK11) Boozahol: 1 (Santo Rugger) Rapier: 1 (AMR) Shadow: 1 (Hero) Hero: 1 (Total Lost) OK11: 1 (OAOW) Today’s pattern for the vote-leaders: Zeriel, Hal, Zeriel, Hal, Hal, Hal, Zeriel, Zeriel, Hal. If we assume for a moment that Hal is scum and Zeriel town, then Pleonast and Ok11’s votes have done most to “save” Hal (taking the score from 4-2 to 4-4). Note that this is not enough to actually save Hal and in fact, after Oredigger’s vote (known town) Hal has stayed in the hot seat. If we assume that Zeriel is scum and Hal town, then excepting Oredigger, Zeriel and Fretful have done the most to keep Hal ahead (3-2 to 4-2 and 4-4 to 5-4 respectively). If we assume they’re both town, then there will be scum on both sides. Also, we’ll be in trouble. Discounting that, both scenarios don’t offer any glaring inconsistencies. Certainly it is noteworthy that Pleonast, who had one of the more suspicious votes yesterday, is now voting for Zeriel; equally, most of Hal’s votes are repeats, which looks less like manipulation. In the interests of putting pressure on any manipulating scum still out there (and because I’m still suspicious of him), I’m going to: **unvote Rapier** **vote Zeriel** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1173 "2008-11-18T14:13:13Z")
So now we’re tied up, **amrussell**. My question is, what do you expect to happen next? As an aside, is anyone else noticing that a side effect of the variable length day is that discussion tends to trail off more rapidly as we’re all sort of expectantly waiting for the night? It’s seemed to me that most of our decisions are being made in the first 48 hours of any given day. ---
**Author:** ![ok11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8baadc/32.png) [@ok11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ok11)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1174 "2008-11-18T14:38:22Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > If we assume they’re both town, then there will be scum on both sides. Also, we’ll be in trouble. I think there will be scum on both sides regardless of the alignment of **Zeriel** and **Hal**. For the same reason, I don’t really think that there’s a “scum block”, as **Zeriel** seems to suggest. Why put all proverbial eggs into one basket? It’s likely that yesterDay at least one scum voted for **JSexton** , and at least one for **Zeriel**. And if there was one scum voting for **Hal** , he’ll be the easiest to catch, especially if we ban **Zeriel**. It’s possible that scum didn’t vote for **Hal** at all, though, because he had relatively few votes. We’ve been focusing a lot on the people voting for the top vote getters. We shouldn’t let the people who didn’t cast a vote at all go unnoticed, and the same goes for one-off voters. If there are really 4 or 5 scum, then it could easily turn out that each Day one of them votes for someone not in danger of being banned, another doesn’t vote at all, and the rest pick sides among our top vote leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1175 "2008-11-18T15:07:59Z")
Sorry I wasn’t around long enough yesterday to get my vote in, so I’m going to get one in now before I catch up in the chance that the Day ends before I finish. Ban **Zeriel** A quick scan of the last few posts makes it look like the initial logic that the **JSexton** train was protection for someone Yesterday has dominated the discussion Today, and that **Zeriel** and **Hal** are the two candidates. I already expressed my suspicion of **Zeriel** Yesterday, and up through what I’ve read Today, nothing has changed that. Now, as for the logic behind the **JSexton** train as cover… I’m not really sure what to think of it, especially since the person who proposed it suggested it was covering Hal, and yet the analysis I did earlier Today makes it much clearer that **Zeriel** was, at worst, in as much trouble, and generally in much more than **Hal**. Maybe I’m suffering from the same thing with just how scummy **Zeriel** looks to me, but that logic seems strange to me that the **JSexton** wagon barely saved **Zeriel** Yesterday, and now it’s being used as logic to potentially save her Today at the expense of **Hal**. I say this, because I strongly suspect that if and when **Zeriel** shows up as scum, the proponents of the logic of how that **JSexton** train was somehow more cover for someone else will have a lot of explaining to do, especially **Shadow**. With that said, it looks like I have 2-2.5 pages to read, so I’ll post more as it comes to me, and I suspect I will since most of the votes seem to have come in in that time. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1176 "2008-11-18T15:19:30Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > **JSexton** wagon barely saved **Zeriel** Yesterday, and now it’s being used as logic to potentially save her Today at the expense of **Hal**. DAMMIT I AM A GUY FOR THE LOVE OF CRAP. At this point I’m suspicious of anyone who calls me a “she” because they’re clearly skimming the thread. > [@](#): > > I say this, because I strongly suspect that if and when **Zeriel** shows up as scum, the proponents of the logic of how that **JSexton** train was somehow more cover for someone else will have a lot of explaining to do, especially **Shadow**. Nice logic. When I show up as town, what’s that little blurb gonna say? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1177 "2008-11-18T15:32:45Z")
> [@ok11](#): > > First of all, **Zeriel** is male. I could have sworn I read somewhere (not in this game) that **Zeriel** was female. My apologies to him then. > [@](#): > > Second, I doubt that PFK roles are partners, because in the first post Og said: > (Bolding mine) Fair point, and I’ll concede it. I remembered reading that there were probably two PFKs, but I didn’t put any more thought into it at the time. > [@](#): > > Also from that first post we find out that this game is Loyal Doper vs. Mark Wit. Although Mark Wit is included on the list of possible roles, I think that it’s not a person, but a place – the Snark Pit. With that in mind, I’d like you to take a look at **Santo Rugger** ’s [post 346](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10401511&postcount=346) > > That doesn’t seem likely anymore, so I agree with **Boozahol Squid, P.I** ’s reply in post 349 > Having said that, the name alone doesn’t make me suspicious of **Santo Rugger** , and unless the Day ends before 3pm tomorrow, I won’t be voting for him anytime soon. **Santo** answering for **Hal** and vice versa doesn’t seem particularly strange to me. I just want to say that I think this is a really dangerous thought pattern in either direction. Mark Wit very well could be a reference to the Snark Pit, especially since I cannot think of a better option for what the reference is. However, I just don’t think it’s a good idea to lend any credence to any claim based on name alone. Plenty of times I’ve seen names that look good be bad, names that look bad be good, and reasonably successful false claims. Even if we find out that the Ed and Cecil analogs are both anti-town, it doesn’t necessarily say anything one way or the other about Terry. As I’ve said earlier in the game, I think any name should pretty much be ignored unless there’s some conflict or overlapping of names. However, names are still a necessary part of any complete roleclaim specifically because of the potential for conflict and forcing potential scum to have to generate and maintain a more substantive claim. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1178 "2008-11-18T15:34:14Z")
Something about this game is itching me the wrong way, and I think it’s the vote analysis. Originally, I suspected Hal because it seemed like he was reacting all out of kilter vis-a-vis JSexton’s gambit. However, the thoughts that have been posted (including my own) about looking for scum blocks in the voting patterns have me wondering just how subtle the scum are actually going to be. I no longer have any confidence that Hal is scum–it seems too obvious a play with the fact there’s a large, noticable block of people who voted JSexton yesterday and me today. I think ok11 is probably closer to the truth, and that the scum are spreading themselves out. I’m probably going to die at this point, so I’m going to go with my gut–it very rarely steers me wrong and I have no reason to believe anything I say will convince anyone to remove a vote from me. \*\* unvote Hal vote Blaster Master I got a gut bad feeling about ShadowFacts and Pleonast, too. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1179 "2008-11-18T15:38:29Z")
**Zeriel** , do you have a claim on record that I’ve overlooked? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1180 "2008-11-18T15:47:42Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > DAMMIT I AM A GUY FOR THE LOVE OF CRAP. At this point I’m suspicious of anyone who calls me a “she” because they’re clearly skimming the thread. OOG: Dude, I’m sorry. As I just said in the previous post, I could have sworn I’d read you were female somewhere, and I’d been using female pronouns to reference you the whole game and that was the first correction I recall reading. If I hadn’t seemed to remember reading that, I would have defaulted to male pronouns. No offense intended. > [@](#): > > Nice logic. When I show up as town, what’s that little blurb gonna say? I’m not sure what your point is here. Does the logic not follow that, if **JSexton** was a cover for someone, that you’re the most likely candidate? And thus, if that logic is being used against someone else in contention with you again, that those people shouldn’t be under suspicion? And if you are town? I think it’s unlikely because my primary reasons for finding you suspicious were stated before this whole **JSexton** thing even became an issue at all and I don’t feel like you’ve in any way adequately addressed my concerns. What would the blurb be if you are town? That the **JSexton** train was illfounded in the first place, as I stated Yesterday in no uncertain terms that I thought the motivation for **JSexton** ’s gambit was utterly lacking on both sides. That is, I don’t think the **JSexton** train itself necessarily means anything if you’re town. It’s not some sort of logical equivalence such that because your scum alignment implies something that your town alignment has to as well. If you’re town and **JSexton** is town, it means that, if **Hal** is scum, the scum didn’t have to do anything to save him because the top two trains, either of which would easily save him, were town. And if hes town, it just means that the top THREE candidates from Yesterday were all town and we need to rethink our approach. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=60)