# Sdmb mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 30, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198 "2008-10-30T02:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1341 "2008-11-24T22:28:48Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I definitely see what you’re getting at, but I still think there are too many unsupportable assumptions in the formula, as **Blaster** has pointed out in his post above. I’ll point out another just for kicks - there’s no reason to think scum voted uniformly on Day One. In the last game I was scum, several of us voted for one person on Day One - I remember because I was concerned about it at the time. Sure, it makes sense that they would try to spread out a bit, but what makes sense generally doesn’t necessarily hold true in specific instances. Yes, but my assumptions are printed clearly for all to see–that’s the advantage. Whether or not a player likes my approach, at least they can see exactly what I’m doing. And I agree we should be quibbling over the hypotheses. I used the ones I did because they seemed reasonable _for this game_. Do you really think the Scum lumped their votes together on Day One? Doesn’t seem very likely to me, given where all the Townie votes are. As **ok11** shows, using different assumptions give you different answers. Of course! Now we can bicker over which to use. Is any one willing to advocate a particular set of hypothesis like I did? Or, players can ignore my methodology completely and vote by their own reasoning. Which reminds me: **why haven’t more people voted?** ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1342 "2008-11-24T22:38:54Z")
I really don’t want to get too much into this, because I think it’s a little off topic, but **Shadow** , the “it should have worked” isn’t a defense. The whole point is, his numbers are perfectly fair and reasonable, so while he can truthfully say that the formula should have worked, and it theoretically should, if the assumptions are incorrect, it doesn’t matter (laws of implication and all that). Bottom line, look at his analysis as saying “here’s what I think the scum were doing” and “based on that, here’s who I think are scum”. Arguing a factor or a arithmetic mistake is silly, because obviously a scum is going to try to choose a reasonable looking factor, just like a townie is, and an arithmetic mistake is equally likely as well for any alignment. Instead, what mathematical analysis tries to do is draw a direct logical connection from theoretical motivations (eg, are they spreading votes out? Are they avoiding/piling-on someone? etc.). However, there’s still problems with the system. There’s no confidence value in the motivational analysis. There’s no alternative scenario analysis. But at the same time, there is not a correlation between complexity and accuracy. The bottom line is, it’s a data point, and even if his mathematical system is flawless, if the premises are incorrect, it means nothing. So, for the mathematically disinclined, simply challenge the premises. For instance, Day One’s assumption was challenged and it was disagreed that the scum necessarily spread out. IME, the scum do tend to avoid eachother when voting on Day One, but there are exceptions. For instance, in one game in which I played played scum (I don’t remember which one, sorry), I didn’t even look at who my scum buddies were entering Day One, so my analysis, voting patterns, and everything on Day One were completely indistinguishable from town. So, sure, it does happen, but more often than not, it’s a fairly even distribution. Of course, there are other factors that come into play, like if scum was threatened or not and if they’d want to try to save him, railroad him, or still spread out. So anyway, I’m satisfied with his discussion about the numerical part. I think his hypotheses for Days One and Two are reasonable, but I would like to hear the reasoning behind his hypothesis for Day Three, because I don’t think it directly follows that the scum would somehow be less inclined to vote for **Zeriel** necessarily. I think if **Hal** is scum, they might be more inclined, and if **Hal** is town, they’d be equally likely to avoid either. So, on that note, **Pleonast** , please explain your Day Three Hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1343 "2008-11-24T22:39:02Z")
I disagree with a **Fretful** lynch. I don’t like how OaOW has been lurking pretty heavily this whole game and since he hasn’t bothered to stop by today I’m putting my vote there as pressure. Both Blaster’s and Pleo’s analysis seem to support my theory. Vote One and Only Wanderers ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1344 "2008-11-24T22:51:11Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > I disagree with a **Fretful** lynch. > > I don’t like how OaOW has been lurking pretty heavily this whole game and since he hasn’t bothered to stop by today I’m putting my vote there as pressure. Both Blaster’s and Pleo’s analysis seem to support my theory. > > Vote One and Only Wanderers Fair enough on the **OaOW** vote. I find his lurkiness quite suspicious myself, as I pointed out earlier. However, I do take exception to comments such as the one on the **Fretful** lynch. Fine, you disagree with that, I don’t expect everyone to necessarily follow my logic, but can you at least give a reason as to WHY you disagree with banning her? Granted, I haven’t come to a conclusion as to how her claim plays into it. It certainly seems fairly believable, but it really is nothing more than a Vanilla claim. I haven’t weighed up what I think the probability is of a scum making a somewhat ellaborate Vanilla claim. So, that aside for a moment, what don’t you agree with? And if that is why you don’t agree with it, what about it makes makes you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1345 "2008-11-24T23:21:07Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > However, there’s still problems with the system. There’s no confidence value in the motivational analysis. There’s no alternative scenario analysis. But at the same time, there is not a correlation between complexity and accuracy. The bottom line is, it’s a data point, and even if his mathematical system is flawless, if the premises are incorrect, it means nothing. So, for the mathematically disinclined, simply challenge the premises. A basically agree, but a couple points: I thought about doing a sensitivity analysis or some other error estimation, but the added complexity wouldn’t improve the final result enough to be worth my time. As you say, my calculation is basically a quantification of my assumptions. I don’t see the benefit of putting too much work into it when the hypotheses have unknownable truthiness. I will also note that I make no claim to accuracy. I think you’re referring to my precision. That’s there for convenience. When comparing scores, I mentally think high/low and ignore the precise number. This’ll be less of an issue once we have several Days. Tomorrow, I expect a couple players to have 3 out 4 high values and be much better lynch candidates. > [@](#): > > So, on that note, **Pleonast** , please explain your Day Three Hypothesis. We have little concrete information about Day Three at this point. Since the voting was basically Zeriel vs nobody in particular, the simplest Scum behavior is to avoid lynching a Townie. I may certainly change my hypotheses once additional data becomes available (which is why I’m not concerned about Scum manipulating me). Do you have a suggestion for an alternative? ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1346 "2008-11-24T23:24:17Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Um, can someone find a post from toDay where anyone has mentioned lynching **Hal** because **Zeriel** turned up Town? I don’t think I ever said I thought **HAL** to be town/scum. I didn’t like the Jsexton-lynch and I didn’t like the Zeriel-lynch. I don’t really know about **HAL** but I just felt like Town was making the same mistake over and over again. No - I havn’t seen much of it toDay thanks to the numbers provided by **Pleo** and others. No need to say I don’t really like the conclusion **Pleo** made based on the numbers… but at least Town is talking about something substantial! I’m off to bed - but I need to vote first. I’m sorry if I keep repeating myself - but **Hero** just really seems scummy to me. So for now I’ll (yet again) go: **VOTE HERO** IRL suff might prevent me from being around the next 24 hours or so - but hey… it’ll just be work for 7 of the 24 hours - so I might get to make a more decent post before sun sets. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1347 "2008-11-24T23:27:05Z")
And before I forget… Is there any chance that SANTO could only make the Day last longer if he “gave his life” and died at Night? I havn’t see that kind of role before - so do any of the more experienced players think that could have happened? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1348 "2008-11-24T23:49:21Z")
Unofficial vote count… Fretful Porpentine : 2 (BlaM , Zsofia) OAOW : 1 (Ok11, Hero) Total Lost : 1 (Pleo) Hero : 1 (Total) No Vote : 7 (Squid, Porpentine, Hal, Kat, OaOW, Rapier, Shadow) In the Hole : 1 (amrussell) Come on people, we’re never going to do well if there’s little discussion and littler voting. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1349 "2008-11-25T00:02:56Z")
I promise I’ll vote before the deadline. I went back to look at **Hal** ’s posts, thinking that I might vote for him again, but I have to say nothing in the posts themselves leapt out at me as sufficient evidence for a vote. And it’s entirely possible that he _could_ be town and everything I thought I was seeing was pure coincidence. Will take a look at OAOW, Total Lost, and Hero next. ---
**Author:** ![Total\_Lost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e56c9b/32.png) [@Total\_Lost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Total_Lost)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1350 "2008-11-25T00:04:30Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Unofficial vote count… > > OAOW : 1 (Ok11, Hero) I don’t think you got your numbers right _lol_ ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1351 "2008-11-25T00:06:54Z")
A forty-eight hour Vote Count.Fretful Porpentine : 2 (Blaster Master, Zsofia) One and Only Wanderers : 2 (ok11, Hero from Sector 7G) Total Lost : 1 (Pleonast) Hero from Sector 7G : 1 (Total Lost) ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1352 "2008-11-25T00:32:47Z")
All right, so after a quick review, **Hero** just strikes me as a typical newbie. Could be a scummy newbie, but as of now, I don’t see any particular reason to think so. The problem I have with voting either **Total Lost** or **One and Only Wanderers** , ironically enough, is that their voting records look a bit _too_ scummy. In other words, if I were scum, I would do my level best _not_ to place my vote on a minor candidate three days running, because I would _know_ that’s precisely the sort of thing that will look funny later in the game, whereas it’s quite conceivable that a townie wouldn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1353 "2008-11-25T01:14:32Z")
> [@Total\_Lost](#): > > And before I forget… > > Is there any chance that SANTO could only make the Day last longer if he “gave his life” and died at Night? > > I havn’t see that kind of role before - so do any of the more experienced players think that could have happened? This just doesn’t seem to be a likely scenario. Why would Santo give his life up so that the town could get an extra 12 hours? Even if he’d made the decision 12 hours before the end (which he didn’t, because he announced his extension during the initial 12 hour period), he didn’t then make some grand attempt at changing things during those final 12 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1354 "2008-11-25T02:29:35Z")
Okay, I’ve finished re-reading up to page 6, and have a question about the following exchange from Day One: Post 200 > [@Rapier42](#): > > I’m not sure any of this is useful, at this point, except to see who’s talking, and maybe establish data points for later evaluation. Post 209 > [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > How does that statement relate to your vote? **Rapier** has expressed what I think is a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town. You claim to want discussion, but immediately vote on someone who disagrees with your choice of subject. > > How do you feel about **Hal** and **Jsexton**? They also expressed a similar concern. > > I think it is weird how you and **NaturalBlondChap** don’t seem to have any reservations about the topic. Post 233 > [@ok11](#): > > Third, no vote from me yet, but I’ll definitely make one before the 48 hours are up. Meanwhile, I am suspicious of **Hero From Sector 7G** and **pedescribe** for their responses to **Rapier42** ’s posts. > > **Rapier42** only made 2 posts toDay. The first (post 196) was speculation about what the Jr. Mod role might mean. Afterwards, **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** said (posts 197, 198) that it’s too difficult to guess what the various roles do. Right after that, **Zsofia** said, “They [Jr. Mods] could be like insane cops. I’m not sure this line of thinking is useful, though, without additional information.” **Rapier42** then agreed that he’s not sure either, but offered two things it might be used for later on (post 200). > > In post 209, **Hero From Sector 7G** says, “ **Rapier** has expressed what I think is a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town.” I don’t see where **Rapier42** expressed any concerns, and find it suspicious that **Hero From Sector 7G** is putting words into **Rapier42** ’s mouth. Both **Hero** and **Rapier** posted several more times between **ok** ’s post 233 quoted above and the bottom of page 6, but **Hero** never responded to the comment that I noticed. **Hero** did make a general comment objecting to being accused of “putting words into people’s mouths” in post 245, right after his explanation of his misinterpretation of **Hal** ’s “quite right” post and seemed to be specifically addressing that particular issue. I don’t see how **Rapier** ’s post 200 could be misinterpreted to be referring to scum-benefits in any way, shape or form. Also, **Rapier** didn’t make any objection to the blatant misinterpretation. I’d like to know: **Hero** , why didn’t you make any attempt to explain the **Rapier** misinterpretation? **Rapier** , any reason you didn’t follow up on **Hero** putting words into your mouth? ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1355 "2008-11-25T02:59:22Z")
Okay, the second question is withdrawn, as I came across **Rapier** ’s response on page 7 (I didn’t go far enough before decided to post). It was post 334: > [@Rapier42](#): > > I’m fairly sure I said at some point that discussion was necessary, benefit to scum be damned. If I didn’t, I should have. And was in response to **ok** ’s followup on the issue (post 332). Although I still haven’t seen where **Hero** got “a legitimate concern, at this point role discussion could benefit scum more than town” out of “I’m not sure any of this is useful, at this point, except to see who’s talking, and maybe establish data points for later evaluation.” So, first question still stands. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1356 "2008-11-25T03:20:31Z")
All right, doing searches of individual players’ posts is giving me more headaches than enlightenment, as usual. So, new method. We all know that the one thing scum always try to do, especially in the early Days, is to distance themselves from each other, whether via the Quiet Scum-on-Scum Vote or the Public Feud. So, here are a few dyads (and one triad) of people who might be worth a further look (based mostly on voting patterns, as I’m too exhausted to reread the whole thread): **Zsofia** and **Kat** : Zsofia casts an early vote on Kat on Day 1, repeats it on Day 2 but later unvotes. Kat does not reciprocate her suspicion, voting instead for **Zeriel** every day. This is a plausible scum-on-scum vote (one of very few possibilities from Day 1); both players have been largely under most people’s radar. Both cast subsequent votes on popular candidates, but never for the same candidate. **Hero** and **One and Only Wanderers** or **Total Lost** : This is the only other possibility for scum voting scum on Day 1. I have explained in my previous post why I’m not totally sold on either OAOW or Lost as scum, but I don’t want to discount the possibility either. OAOW and Lost subsequently vote for (different) unpopular candidates, Hero for relatively popular ones. **Hal Briston** and **ShadowFacts** : Participants in a very heated exchange. ShadowFacts votes for Hal on Day 2, and Hal returns the favor on Day 3. This feels like it could very easily be a staged feud; but if they are both scum, they’re playing a risky game that could well have led to the lynch of one or the other. **One and Only Wanderers** and **ok11** : These two have been voting for each other like crazy, although nobody else has been paying much attention to either of them as candidates until toDay. Again, this looks like it may be a calculated public feud. Incidentally, none of these dyads / triads of players have ever ended a Day with their votes on the same person, although I don’t think there’s anything conclusive about this at this point in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1357 "2008-11-25T03:27:29Z")
I’ll go back and find the posts that discussed the Hal v. Zeriel thing today (mostly fear of the “now we lynch Hal” t hing, which is probably keeping people from talking about him at all, which is a bad thing) later, but I’m iPhoning this and I just wanted to say I buy Fretful’s claim so I **unvote Fretful** **vote OAOW** ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1358 "2008-11-25T03:39:55Z")
@Kat\> I posted my apology _thirty minutes_ after **Rapier** clarified his position. You are 100% completely correct that I read the tone of his original post and thought he was saying something different than he was. Here is how I read his comment in my mind “I’m not sure any of this is useful (to town), at this point.” It doesn’t seem like a huge leap of logic to assume that role discussion _would_ be useful to scum. Still, upon clarification I _immediately_ made it clear that I had misread his position. What more do you want? With hindsight supporting me I still don’t get why I was vilified for being cautious about role discussion. Scum and PFKs have torn through our power roles and it is our own damn fault. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1359 "2008-11-25T03:47:01Z")
**Hero** , can you link or quote the post for me, please? ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198/1360 "2008-11-25T04:17:41Z")
OK, as I said before, I’m inclined to believe \*\*Fretful \*\*at this point, and no one else has jumped out at me as scummy toDay, so I’m going to go back to yesterDay and make my case against who I felt was behaving extremely scummy. Big surprise, it’s **Hero**. I fully admit that I got quite frustrated with \*\*Hero \*\*yesterDay and this review may be somewhat biased as a result. However, I will be linking and quoting the posts in question, so please judge for yourself. It at begins in post where I explain why I was voting for **Hal**. In post [1069](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10452121&postcount=1069)Hero immediately tries to divert the conversation, and distorts the record for the first time by saying “You and amrussel have all come forth this morning saying you didn’t like the JSexton bandwagon but you weren’t vocal about it yesterday. Why not?” I respond and refute him in post [1072](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10452204&postcount=1072), showing that I was vocal about it. \*\*Hero \*\*changes tactics in post [1074](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10452298&postcount=1074), claiming that “The closest Hal got to being vote leader was two away. You’re also completing ignoring Zeriel who was actually MATCHED with JSexton (6 to 6) for a while.” The first point I think is probably just a misunderstanding, although I didn’t take it as such at the time, as we will see later. The second point is the hammer that \*\*Hero \*\*is going to try to nail me with for the rest of the Day. (As a side note, **Total Lost** effectively criticizes \*\*Hero \*\*about this later in post [1102](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10454785&postcount=1102)). I respond in [1075](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10452842&postcount=1075), and explain that I haven’t reviewed the vote record including \*\*Zeriel \*\*yet, but I would. \*\*Hero \*\*responds in [1077](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10453281&postcount=1077), dropping his first FOS on me, for the “ignoring **Zeriel** ” reason. I post a record of the previous Day’s voting, _including **Zeriel** _, in [1078](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10453476&postcount=1078). In [1079](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10453498&postcount=1079), I press \*\*Hero \*\*about his previous misrepresentation about me not being vocal on **JSexton**. \*\*Hero \*\*responds to that in [1089](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10454103&postcount=1089), lamely (IMO) saying that I didn’t defend **JSexton** , I only attacked **Hal Briston**. I show that he is either wrong or lying about this in post [1103](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10454883&postcount=1103). **Then I get a head cold, and my posting is reduced** In [1160](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10460758&postcount=1160), \*\*Hero \*\*votes for me, again saying that I ignored \*\*Zeriel \*\*(hammer, hammer). I respond in [1163](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10461503&postcount=1163)with a complete explanation of the \*\*Zeriel \*\*issue, as well as my first attempt at showing how \*\*Hero \*\*is misrepresenting me. This includes me saying that \*\*Hero \*\*is wrong when he says that \*\*Hal \*\*was 2 votes away from being vote leader. I show that he is ‘wrong’ by saying: “Hero is not the only one who has said this, but it is also simply not true. When Zeriel voted for Hal, it was JSexton 4, Zeriel 3, Hal 3. I’ve posted this multiple times.” Hero replies with [1166](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10461801&postcount=1166), saying “Uh… if someone is at 4 votes, and the other person at 3, it takes TWO votes to put them into lynch leader.” I think the misunderstanding is that I look at the votes and see \*\*Hal \*\*as 1 vote away from a tie for the lead. \*\*Hero \*\*sees that \*\*as Hal \*\*needing to go ahead of \*\*JSexton \*\*in order to take the lead, as the tie would go to **JSexton**. \*\*Kat \*\*then explains to him in [1167](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10461983&postcount=1167)that this is not quite accurate. Nevertheless, I now think this is just a different way of looking at the numbers. Not much else happens between us for a while, when in the midst of an exchange between \*\*Zeriel \*\*and me, \*\*Hero \*\*jumps in with this post ([1234](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10471097&postcount=1234)) accusing me of “swearing at” people who are voting for me. While I was certainly well on the way to my frustration explosion at this point, this is still disingenuous. At this point, I have 3 votes on me: **Hero** , \*\*Hal \*\*and **Rapier42**. \*\*Hero \*\*says that my calling his vote for me “total crap” is swear #1. What can I say about that except that it’s total crap? 😃 I did not swear at either \*\*Hal \*\*or \*\*Rapier \*\*(in fact, I went out of my way to say that I enjoy playing with **Hal** ) after he voted for me. The second “swear” was me saying “unfuckingbelievable” in response to a post about me by **Zeriel**. While certainly a swear, it wasn’t directed at **Zeriel**. I didn’t call him a fucking tool or any other names. I just thought his post was really unbelievable. (It was.) This while thing was a smudge and a smear. OK, that’s it. I’m sure most of you won’t bother to read through this monstrosity, but if you do, I think you’ll see what I see: someone who is trying to distract and distort. And that’s scummy. **Vote Hero from Sector 7G** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-mafia/470198.md?page=69)