# SDMB Modern Diplomacy Game \*players only please\* **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 4, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770 "2011-05-04T23:20:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/281 "2011-09-15T18:11:45Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Thank you wevets. We appreciate your work for this game. +1 ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/282 "2011-09-15T19:41:46Z")
Thanks! šŸ˜ƒ On to the turn results: Map in Flickr [here](http://www.flickr.com/photos/30973257@N03/6150486447/) Order Results: **Britain:** 13 Centers Britain: F Andalusia Supports F Barcelona Britain: F Barcelona Supports F Andalusia Support cut by Move from Gulf of Lyon. Britain: F Gibraltar -\> Straits of Gibraltar Bounced with Straits of Gibraltar (1 against 3). Britain: A Madrid -\> Navarra Britain: F Mid Atlantic Ocean Supports F South Atlantic Ocean Britain: A Navarra -\> Bordeaux Britain: F North Sea -\> Heligoland Bight Britain: F Norway Supports F Sweden Britain: A Ruhr Supports A Munich Support failed. Move orders must be supported explicitly. (N.B. Munich did not hold, it moved -wevets) Britain: A Seville -\> Madrid Britain: F South Atlantic Ocean Supports F Gibraltar Support failed. Move orders must be supported explicitly. Britain: F Sweden Supports F Norway **Egypt:** 15 Centers The Army in Lyon cannot retreat; unit destroyed. Egypt: F Algeria Supports F Straits of Gibraltar Egypt: A Eastern Sahara -\> Libya Egypt: F Gulf of Lyon -\> Barcelona Bounced with Barcelona (2 against 2). Egypt: F Ligurian Sea Supports A Monaco -\> Marseilles Egypt: A Lyon -\> Alsace Bounced with Alsace (1 against 1). Dislodged from Paris (3 against 1). Egypt: F Maltese Sea Convoys A Tunisia -\> Venice Egypt: A Marseilles -\> Lyon Bounced with Paris (1 against 1). Egypt: A Milan Supports A Switzerland Egypt: A Monaco -\> Marseilles Failed because Egypt: A Marseilles -\> Lyon failed. Egypt: F Morroco Supports F Straits of Gibraltar Egypt: F Straits of Gibraltar Supports F Western Mediterranean Support cut by Move from Gibraltar. Egypt: A Switzerland Supports A Lyon -\> Alsace Support cut by Move from Munich. Egypt: A Tunisia -\> Venice No Convoy route. Egypt: A Tuscany -\> Piedmont Egypt: F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Western Mediterranean Egypt: F Western Mediterranean Supports F Gulf of Lyon -\> Barcelona **Germany:** 7 Centers The Army in Munich cannot retreat; unit destroyed. No order for unit at Berlin. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Hamburg. Hold order assigned. Germany: A Alsace Supports A Paris -\> Lyon Germany: A Auvergne Supports A Paris -\> Lyon Germany: F Berlin Holds Germany: A Frankfurt Supports A Munich Support failed. Move orders must be supported explicitly. Germany: F Hamburg Holds Germany: A Munich -\> Switzerland Bounced with Switzerland (1 against 2). Dislodged from Saxony (2 against 1). Germany: A Paris -\> Lyon **Poland:** 6 Centers Poland: F Finland Holds Poland: A Gorky Supports A St-Petersburg -\> Moscow Poland: A Lithuania -\> Bielorussia Bounced with Bielorussia (1 against 1). Poland: A Murmansk Holds Poland: A St-Petersburg -\> Moscow Bounced with Central Russian Plateau (2 against 1). Poland: A Warsaw Supports A Lithuania -\> Bielorussia Support cut by Move from Krakow. **Russia:** 1 Center Russia: A Lapland -\> Murmansk Bounced with Murmansk (1 against 1). Russia: A Moscow Holds **Turkey:** 22 Centers No order for unit at Adriatic Sea. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Caucasus. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Croatia. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Eastern Black Sea. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Georgia. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Greece. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Ionian Sea. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Odessa. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Sevastopol. Hold order assigned. No order for unit at Slovakia. Hold order assigned. Turkey: F Adriatic Sea Holds Turkey: A Austria Supports A Saxony -\> Munich Turkey: A Bielorussia Supports A Krakow -\> Warsaw Support cut by Move from Lithuania. Turkey: A Caucasus Holds Turkey: A Central Russian Plateau -\> Moscow Bounced with St-Petersburg (2 against 1). Turkey: A Croatia Holds Turkey: A Czech Republic -\> Saxony Turkey: F Eastern Black Sea Holds Turkey: A Georgia Holds Turkey: A Greece Holds Turkey: F Ionian Sea Holds Turkey: A Kiev -\> Central Russian Plateau Failed because Turkey: A Central Russian Plateau -\> Moscow failed. Turkey: A Krakow -\> Warsaw Bounced with Warsaw (1 against 1). Turkey: A Odessa Holds Turkey: A Podolia -\> Krakow Failed because Turkey: A Krakow -\> Warsaw failed. Turkey: A Saxony -\> Munich Turkey: F Sevastopol Holds Turkey: A Siberia -\> Urals Turkey: A Slovakia Holds Turkey: A Volga Supports A Central Russian Plateau -\> Moscow All dislodged units destroyed; advancing to next phase. **Builds/Disbands:** **Britain** has 1 Build **Germany** may not use 1 Build due to no available home supply centers **Russia** 1 Disband **Turkey** 2 Builds How about Builds due Saturday, Sept. 17th at 7 AM PDT, and Spring 2005 Moves due Monday, Sept. 19th at 7 AM PDT (10 AM EDT, 4 PM SAST) ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/283 "2011-09-19T15:15:41Z")
Donā€™t worry - the game has not been forgotten. Real life issues intrude, but I will post again later today. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/284 "2011-09-20T04:24:07Z")
Map in Flickr [here](http://www.flickr.com/photos/30973257@N03/6164750067/) Builds from Winter 2004: **Britain** : Build Army London **Russia** : Disband Army Lapland We have a player traveling, so next turn, Spring 2005, will be due: 7 AM PDT Thursday September 22nd. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/285 "2011-09-22T23:38:58Z")
I was reluctant to run the turn without orders from 2 major powers, but here it went: Map in Flickr: [here](http://www.flickr.com/photos/30973257@N03/6173240493/) Orders Results: **Britain** : No orders received. Holds assigned by jDip. Britain: F Andalusia Holds Britain: F Barcelona Holds Britain: A Bordeaux Holds Britain: F Gibraltar Holds Britain: F Heligoland Bight Holds Britain: A London Holds Britain: A Madrid Holds Britain: F Mid Atlantic Ocean Holds Britain: A Navarra Holds Britain: F Norway Holds Britain: A Ruhr Holds Britain: F South Atlantic Ocean Holds Britain: F Sweden Holds **Egypt** : Egypt: F Algeria Supports F Straits of Gibraltar Egypt: F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean Egypt: A Libya -\> Venice No Convoy route. Egypt: F Ligurian Sea Supports A Monaco -\> Marseilles Egypt: F Maltese Sea Convoys A Libya -\> Venice Egypt: A Marseilles -\> Lyon Egypt: A Milan Supports A Switzerland Egypt: A Monaco -\> Marseilles Egypt: F Morroco Supports F Straits of Gibraltar Egypt: A Piedmont Supports A Switzerland Egypt: F Straits of Gibraltar Supports F Western Mediterranean Egypt: A Switzerland Supports A Marseilles -\> Lyon Egypt: A Tunisia -\> Rome Convoy path taken: Tunisiaā†’Tyrrhenian Seaā†’Rome. Egypt: F Tyrrhenian Sea Convoys A Tunisia -\> Rome Egypt: F Western Mediterranean Supports F Gulf of Lyon **Germany** : No orders received. Holds assigned by jDip. Germany: A Alsace Holds Germany: A Auvergne Holds Germany: F Berlin Holds Germany: A Frankfurt Holds Germany: F Hamburg Holds Germany: A Lyon Holds Dislodged from Marseilles (2 against 1). **Poland** : No order for unit at Lithuania. Hold order assigned. Poland: F Finland -\> Gulf of Bothnia Poland: A Gorky Supports A Murmansk -\> Urals Poland: A Lithuania Holds Poland: A Murmansk -\> Urals Poland: A St-Petersburg Supports A Lithuania -\> Latvia Support failed. Supported unitā€™s order does not match support given. Poland: A Warsaw -\> Bielorussia Bounced with Bielorussia (1 against 2). **Russia** : Russia: A Moscow Holds Dislodged from Central Russian Plateau (2 against 1). **Turkey** : Turkey: F Adriatic Sea Holds Turkey: A Austria -\> Munich Failed because Turkey: A Munich -\> Alsace failed. Turkey: A Bielorussia Supports A Central Russian Plateau -\> Moscow Support cut by Move from Warsaw. Turkey: A Caucasus Holds Turkey: A Central Russian Plateau -\> Moscow Turkey: A Croatia Holds Turkey: F Eastern Black Sea Holds Turkey: A Georgia Holds Turkey: A Greece Holds Turkey: F Ionian Sea Holds Turkey: A Kiev Supports A Bielorussia Turkey: A Krakow -\> Silesia Turkey: A Munich -\> Alsace Bounced with Alsace (1 against 1). Turkey: A Odessa Holds Turkey: A Podolia Supports A Slovakia -\> Krakow Turkey: A Saxony Supports A Krakow -\> Silesia Turkey: F Sevastopol -\> Western Black Sea Turkey: A Slovakia -\> Krakow Turkey: A Urals -\> Gorky Bounced with Gorky (1 against 1). Dislodged from Murmansk (2 against 1). Turkey: A Volga Supports A Central Russian Plateau -\> Moscow **Retreat Phase** : A Moscow Disbands. **Turkey** : Retreat needed for A Urals. Options are Siberia or Disband **Germany** : Retreat needed for A Lyon. Options are Paris or Disband \*\*Retreats due by Saturday, Sept. 24th at 6 AM Pacific Time (Iā€™m on a boat at our usual time of 7) \*\* Thanks, ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/286 "2011-09-22T23:40:55Z")
Poland: Army Lithuania to Latvia succeeds! My apologies ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/287 "2011-09-25T14:41:24Z")
[Map](http://www.flickr.com/photos/30973257@N03/6180958971/) **Turkey** : A Urals retreats to Siberia **Russia** : A Moscow disbands **Germany** : No order received A Lyon disbands Fall 2005 due Monday, Sept. 26th at 7 AM Pacific Time. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/288 "2011-09-27T03:03:02Z")
Map in Flickr [here](http://www.flickr.com/photos/30973257@N03/6186943265/) Order Results: **Britain: 13 Centers** No orders Britain: F Andalusia Holds Britain: F Barcelona Holds Britain: A Bordeaux Holds Britain: F Gibraltar Holds Britain: F Heligoland Bight Holds Britain: A London Holds Britain: A Madrid Holds Britain: F Mid Atlantic Ocean Holds Britain: A Navarra Holds Britain: F Norway Holds Britain: A Ruhr Holds Britain: F South Atlantic Ocean Holds Dislodged from Morocco (2 against 1). Britain: F Sweden Holds **Egypt: 17 Centers** Egypt: F Algeria Supports F Straits of Gibraltar Egypt: F Gulf of Lyon Supports F Western Mediterranean Egypt: A Libya -\> Venice Convoy path taken: Libyaā†’Maltese Seaā†’Ionian Seaā†’Adriatic Seaā†’Venice. Egypt: F Ligurian Sea -\> Marseilles Egypt: A Lyon -\> Paris Egypt: F Maltese Sea Convoys A Libya -\> Venice Egypt: A Marseilles -\> Lyon Egypt: A Milan Supports A Switzerland Egypt: F Morroco -\> South Atlantic Ocean Egypt: A Piedmont Holds Egypt: A Rome -\> Tuscany Egypt: F Straits of Gibraltar Supports F Morroco -\> South Atlantic Ocean Egypt: A Switzerland Supports A Marseilles -\> Lyon Egypt: F Tyrrhenian Sea -\> Ligurian Sea Egypt: F Western Mediterranean Supports F Straits of Gibraltar **Germany: 4 Centers** The Army in Frankfurt cannot retreat; unit destroyed. No orders Germany: A Alsace Holds Germany: A Auvergne Holds Germany: F Berlin Holds Germany: A Frankfurt Holds Dislodged from Munich (2 against 1). Germany: F Hamburg Holds **Poland: 5 Centers** Poland: A Gorky Supports A St-Petersburg -\> Moscow Dislodged from Moscow (2 against 1). Poland: F Gulf of Bothnia -\> Sweden Bounced with Sweden (1 against 1). Poland: A Latvia Supports A St-Petersburg -\> Moscow Poland: A St-Petersburg -\> Moscow Poland: A Urals Supports A Gorky Support cut by Move from Siberia. Poland: A Warsaw -\> Bielorussia Bounced with Bielorussia (1 against 1). Dislodged from Krakow (2 against 1). **Turkey: 25 Centers** Turkey: F Adriatic Sea Convoys A Libya -\> Venice Turkey: A Austria -\> Munich Turkey: A Bielorussia Supports A Krakow -\> Warsaw Turkey: A Caucasus Supports A Volga Turkey: A Croatia -\> Austria Turkey: F Eastern Black Sea Holds Turkey: A Georgia -\> Rostov Turkey: A Greece Holds Turkey: F Ionian Sea Convoys A Libya -\> Venice Turkey: A Kiev -\> Central Russian Plateau Turkey: A Krakow -\> Warsaw Turkey: A Moscow -\> Gorky Turkey: A Munich -\> Frankfurt Turkey: A Odessa -\> Podolia Turkey: A Podolia -\> Krakow Turkey: A Saxony Supports A Munich -\> Frankfurt Turkey: A Siberia -\> Urals Bounced with Urals (1 against 1). Turkey: A Silesia -\> Prussia Turkey: A Volga Supports A Moscow -\> Gorky Turkey: F Western Black Sea Holds Letā€™s do retreats and builds together: **Britain:** Retreat for F South Atlantic **Egypt:** 2 Builds **Poland:** Retreats for A Warsaw and A Gorky, Disband 1 **Turkey:** 4 Builds Due by Wednesday, Sept. 28th, 2011 7 AM PDT 3 NMRs and Iā€™ll assume a player is out of the game. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/289 "2011-09-28T14:23:10Z")
3 NMRs in a row from Britain and Germany. Poland, Turkey, and Egypt are now voting on an outcome for the game. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/290 "2011-09-28T14:31:25Z")
Turkey votes turkey/Egypt tie ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/291 "2011-09-28T14:34:48Z")
Iā€™m voting for an Egypt/Turkey tie as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/292 "2011-09-29T18:08:42Z")
Ok, Egypt/Turkey tie. Though if England cared there is no way for Egypt to get into The Mid Atlantic. You two would never be able to take the fight to the islands. This should be an Egypt/Turkey/England tie. But like I said, ā€˜if he caredā€™. And I donā€™t blame him. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/293 "2011-09-29T19:03:36Z")
**Concession of the game to Egypt/Turkey it is.** I do have to confess to a certain curiosity about what might have been if England had held, and Turkey continued to hold the upper hand in Continental supply centersā€¦ would that have been enough to split the Turkey/Egypt alliance and lead to an individual victory? Not sure. The Modern Variant makes for a loooong game! I was surprised at how long it took. Patience is a virtue, but this was a bit much. Iā€™m not sure Iā€™d favor Modern over other variants for that reason. But I do want to thank all the players who took part, and for their own patience in this very long slog. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/294 "2011-09-29T21:10:41Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > **Concession of the game to Egypt/Turkey it is.** > > I do have to confess to a certain curiosity about what might have been if England had held, and Turkey continued to hold the upper hand in Continental supply centersā€¦ would that have been enough to split the Turkey/Egypt alliance and lead to an individual victory? Not sure. > The Modern Variant makes for a loooong game! I was surprised at how long it took. Patience is a virtue, but this was a bit much. Iā€™m not sure Iā€™d favor Modern over other variants for that reason. > But I do want to thank all the players who took part, and for their own patience in this very long slog. šŸ™‚ Thank you for administering the game, wevets! I had been looking forward to revealing and discussing the timeline of correspondence between me and Egypt for this game, but Iā€™m not sure anyone would be interested at this point. That was grueling. Anyway, Iā€™m just happy to finally make it to the endgame. Iā€™m typically the first or second person out. Now that the game is over, do you care to weigh in on how we played, wevets? Do you agree with the others, that the Egypt/Turkey alliance was unsportsmanlike? ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/295 "2011-09-30T23:28:39Z")
I would be interested in hearing about how the various alliances developed - itā€™s interesting as adjudicator to see the orders come in week after week, and think the game is running one way, then see the orders for the next week come in with a surprising betrayal. For example, I was certain that at one point when the bulk of Egyptā€™s fleet was in the western Med, Turkey was going to build 4 fleets at once and come tearing towards Cairo - I was completely wrong. Seeing just the moves and not the negotiations can leave you in the dark a bit. Regarding the extremely durable and honest alliance between Egypt and Turkey - I believe thatā€™s a perfectly legitimate way to play. Every Diplomacy player walks a line between being honest and trustworthy enough to make an alliance work and deceitful enough to achieve their goals. If two players make arrangements in-game\* work out so well they donā€™t want to fight each other for the solo victory; that actually happens a lot and isnā€™t unusual. I hadnā€™t realized on starting the game that the Modern variant, with a much bigger map and ten players, probably makes the alliance draw more likely than standard. Speaking of standard Dip - the furor over the [ā€œJuggernautā€](http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources/strategy/articles/juggernaut.htm) alliance between Russia and Turkey I think is partially due to how easy it is to maintain a Russia/Turkey alliance once that pesky Russian fleet in the Black Sea is gone. If thereā€™s no naval threat, itā€™s really easy not only for Russia and Turkey to ally with each other, but itā€™s also very easy for them to make sure _betrayal is too costly_. I think thatā€™s a little of what happened in our game as well. Turkey and Egypt set up a system where they might look at betraying each other, and decide ā€˜f\*\*\* that, itā€™s not worth it.ā€™ Thatā€™s a tough challenge for other players to fight, and it can be really frustrating to deal with. I hope all our players found the game on balance more entertaining than frustrating. I think I should also give a special shout-out to our Russia ( **grimpixie** ) not just for playing Russia again, but also for surviving long after I thought he would get crushed between Poland and Turkey, and another special shout-out to **MrBroadside** and **treis** for taking over nations in mid-game and making the best out of very difficult situations they were handed. šŸ™‚ Incidentally, this was a particularly long and arduous game, but Iā€™ve been checking out [http://playdiplomacy.com/](http://playdiplomacy.com/) for my online Diplomacy fiending. If anyone wants to play in a game over there, PM me. \*\*\*\*\*Itā€™s very important that the game not be influenced by whatā€™s going on outside the game: If Iā€™m allying with Joe because of a friendship outside the game or because I want him to keep giving me rides to work, thatā€™s not fair because other players canā€™t offer in-game inducements to change my alliance/benefit calculation. As long as the alliance/benefit calculation is **solely** based on in-game factors, then itā€™s fair. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/296 "2011-10-01T00:12:31Z")
The alliance between Turkey and Egypt was very shaky for the majority of the game. We put on a united front because thatā€™s what suited the both of us. As we discovered in later talks we were each expecting a betrayal at each turn- it just never came. Our announcement that we were going for a dual conquest was itself a strategy that we were hoping would encourage the other players to just give up, giving us a tie and preventing each of us from being able to stab the other. Turkey would have attempted to snatch land from me at the very end had the game gone on that long- I know he would have because he told me so. Anyway, in the early game I was only in real contact with Italy and Turkey. Initial Turkish communication for those interested: [spoiler]Great and glorious leader of Egypt, Although our enemies would love to encourage the idea that you and I are natural adversaries, I implore you to think twice before considering me your rival. I am quite confident that Russia and Ukraine have entered an agreement against me. They will most certainly appeal to you, to convince you to exhaust your forces against me. Consider that regardless of how our negotiations are resolved, I can not now and will not soon be able to prevent you from expanding west while Russia and Ukraine are united against me. Also consider that the beneficiaries of my destruction will surely be Ukraine first, Russia second, and they will likely not permit you to have anything at all. I am already making preparations to defend myself against them, but my preparations require that you allow me to be the buffer between you and them. Another consideration is that Italy is the only nation who could put even a token resistance against your westward expansion, and they are already quite literally surrounded by rivals. You would certainly be successful in a race against Italy for the North African production centers, but only if you commit your fleets in Cairo and Alexandria. What I propose is the following - if you agree to a non-aggression pact with me, as a gesture of good faith we shall both leave our fleets out of the EME sea zone. You move your fleets from Ale to Esa or the LBN sea zone, and from Cai to Ale. I will move my fleet from Izr to Ist, and my army from Ada to Arm. This will leave Isr neutral, and ensure that neither of us can use EME as a staging zone to attack the other next turn. Hopefully after we have built mutual trust from our first turn, we can continue to forge a relationship which surely none of our enemies would be able to resist. Thank you for your consideration! -Mosier, the Enlightened and Merciful Despot of Turkey[/spoiler][spoiler]'Sup, T Iā€™ve always dreamed of a world united by the Turks and the Egyptians and Iā€™m glad that you had the forethought to contact me with this offer of peace between our great states. You know that your survival may depend on Egyptian neutrality in European matters and I am more than happy to give you this. A Europe under Turkish rule would be preferable to an Italian, Polish or, God-forbid, Ukrainian Europe. Unfortunately, I must make some changes to your offer for it to be acceptable. Considering how valuable my friendship would be to you I think that accepting this revised deal would be to our mutual benefit. 1.) Starting with you, we will both make a public display of friendship between our two great nations with the signing of a non-aggression pact. 2.) In the interest of peace Syria, Iraq and the East Mediterranean Sea will remain neutral and demilitarized. The creation of a Syria-Iraq neutral zone will be publicized in the above-mentioned statement. 3.) I accept any claim of yours to all land north of the Syria-Iraq neutral zone (Iran, Georgia, etc) and in Mediterranean Europe (Greece, Bulgaria, etc). You accept my claim to all land south of the neutral zone (Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc) and in western Africa (Libya, Tunisia, etc). I will be moving my fleet from the coast of Cairo to Israel. This action is non-negotiable. Know this: I will risk the very destruction of Egypt itself to secure Israel. If you do not contest my claim of Israel I will be content and will do well to remember your diplomacy in future negotiations. If you do, howeverā€¦ My fleet in Alexandria will sail for Libya. My forces in Aswan will move north preparing to either march or sail to Saudi Arabia. Youā€™re right: The others are likely already parceling us off. We can either rule jointly or fall together. AClockworkMelon, EGYPT[/spoiler][spoiler]I agree to your terms, with the exception of the public display of friendship (at least for the first turn.) I can not allow Russia and Ukraine to know that I can count on your neutrality. So the final terms of a friendship treaty will include the following. Public display of friendship no earlier than turn 2 negotiation phase EME, Syr, Irk neutral and demilitarized for turns 1 and 2, to be renewed after turn 2 if we both agree North of the demilitarized zone, including Greece, will be mine, and south of the zone will be yours. I hope these terms are acceptable to you. Thank you for your consideration! -Turkey[/spoiler]Italy and I blustered at each other for a while when he tried to give me an ultimatum (war with Turkey or else war with Italy). Iā€™ve had some interesting communications with Poland: [spoiler]Turkey doubled in size in one year. If they decide to turn on you Iā€™m not sure what anyone else can do to help. Sitnam, Poland[/spoiler][spoiler]If. AClockworkMelon, EGYPT[/spoiler][spoiler]Pausaniusā€™ response to Mardonius at The Battle of Plataea. I hope your guys fight like Spartans. Sitnam, Poland[/spoiler][spoiler]A two fleet convoy against a knowingly hostile enemy is hard to pull off. Iā€™m impressed. Sitnam, Poland[/spoiler]At one point in the game I came up with the idea to use Turkeyā€™s alliance with Ukraine to feed Russia Ukraineā€™s moves, thus delaying a Ukrainian victory (which we felt would lead to him turning on Turkey). Russia didnā€™t buy the first bit of info I sent him (if he had he would have taken a territory just before a winter but itā€™s understandable- the Ukrainian move I sent him was unorthodox). I used the trust to feed him a false move a few turns later. Didnā€™t manage to do anything useful with that opportunity. We were both sending each other our contact with other nations by midway through the game, not sure if Turkey held anything back from me. The most interesting was an email sent to him by Poland. šŸ˜‰ There was more cool/funny/interesting stuff that happened that I canā€™t remember at the moment but I definitely enjoyed playing with you all. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/297 "2011-10-02T22:43:53Z")
As the original British player Iā€™ll chime in with my 2 cents. I originally wanted to go all-in with Spain against France, with Germany as our stooge and subsequent victim and Italy as our co-belligerent. Iā€™d convoy tons of armies onto the continent and go eastward, while Spain would end up being a major player in the Med. Well, it turned out that Spain made an error in the 1st fall turn (sadly one which I had offhandedly suggested during a brainstorming session) letting France into one of his home centers, and Germany turned out to be the novice from hell (Iā€™ll leave it at that), which blew the balance I wanted to maintain in the West all to hell and significantly set back our timetable, esp. when France got 3 first year builds instead of the one that he should have gotten (if everyone had done their jobs). I wasnā€™t sure of the intentions of the new Germany, and when I was unable to contest his play into the Low Countries, we came to a sort of approachment where we would (finally!) dissect France w/ Spainā€™s help, with the idea being that he would build tons of armies and become a monster to contest the Eastern alliance. But by then our collective momentum was very low and I knew that we would be disadvantaged (stalemated at best) by the arriving Juggernaut, as in fact happened. At that point real life intruded and I passed Britain off to another player, who then stabbed Spain-I donā€™t think it would have made much of a difference in the end if Britain had held off the knives as we simply didnā€™t have the breadth of centers to counterattack them. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/298 "2011-10-02T22:49:50Z")
Hey England, welcome back! My assessment of the endgame is that Germany and England could have stalemated me and Egypt in the west, leaving me with too few centers for victory. I would have had to stab Egypt to get the last few centers, which would have involved a few turns of back-and-forth. I donā€™t think I could have held too long against Egypt/Germany/England in the west, but probably long enough to snatch a home center or two and slide in to victory sideways. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770/299 "2011-10-15T15:53:24Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > I think I should also give a special shout-out to our Russia ( **grimpixie** ) not just for playing Russia again, but also for surviving long after I thought he would get crushed between Poland and Turkey, and another special shout-out to **MrBroadside** and **treis** for taking over nations in mid-game and making the best out of very difficult situations they were handed. šŸ™‚ Heh, I hate playing Russiaā€¦ no one trusts you at the start of the gameā€¦ šŸ™‚ I think I made a massive mess-up with my very first set of moves, which were supposed to be innocuous, but ended up putting most peopleā€™s hackles up, and I never recovered from there, at least not with my immediate neighbours. At one point I thought that England, Germany and I had the beginnings of what could have been a fruitful alliance, but then the other two had to pull out and their replacements decided to go in different directions. While it was still on for me, I enjoyed it immensely, and would love to play again at some point. Maybe I will GM the next one? Grim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-modern-diplomacy-game-players-only-please/580770.md?page=14)