# SDMB Musical Lovers' Salon and Debating Society presents Hello, Dolly! (1969) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555 "2005-03-21T14:34:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/1 "2005-03-21T14:34:47Z")
[Hello, Dolly!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064418/) Directed by [Gene Kelly](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000037/) Starring [Barbra Streisand](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000659/), [Walter Matthau](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000527/), [Michael Crawford](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0186903/) I gotta tell ya, I love this one. It’s so big and bombastic, it’s practically bollywood. Gene Kelly does a wonderful job of making each and every crowd scene a dancing extravaganza. The “_Hello, Dolly_!” number, which reportedly took a month to film, is just glorious and complicated and hey look! It’s Louis Armstrong! “_Before The Parade Passes By_” with the full parade and Barbra’s never ending last note is one of the seminal big musical moments. Kids, it just doesn’t get any bigger than this. Barbra (showing her nail fetish began at a young age) is woefully miscast if you realize that Dolly Levi is supposed to be middle-aged. But who cares? She’s Barbra. She can do anything. Her voice and control are shown to their best here. She shines in every scene she’s in, but oddly has the weakest song. The “_Love Is Only Love_” number is just lost in the production. Poor Walter Matthau. Can’t sing, can’t dance, but gamely trying anyway. Obviously only here for the paycheck, he acts dyspeptic every time he sees Barbra. And, after reading about their on-set feud, I now know it wasn’t an act. And Michael Crawford chews every piece of scenery he can get his hands on. To me, “_It Only Takes A Moment_” is the best done. Quiet, peaceful and very moving, Michael finally stops hamming it up and just sings. Admittedly, his voice isn’t nearly at “Phantom” quality, but it is well suited to this lovely song. The rest of the cast is pleasantly bland as if they didn’t want to distract from Barbra standing firmly in the spotlight. All together, it’s a very good musical but just not that great a movie. It’s just too big. After a while your eyes get tired and you just wish they’d stop dancing all the time. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/2 "2005-03-21T14:52:11Z")
Wish they’d stop dancing? Heresy! (Although the finale where they reprise _every single freaking number_ was a bit much.) The choreographer was Michael Kidd, who also choreographed **Guys and Dolls** – if someone picks **Seven Brides for Seven Brothers** next, we can complete the hat trick on him. But I love his angular, stylized thing – Tommy Tune is a perfect dancer for him, the way he can pivot those long legs around. I have _got_ to get a DVD player (oh shut up, I’m broke these days) – the chopping of the dance scenes was horrible. The only movie I’ve seen with worse butchery in the conversion to TV was **There’s No Business Like Show Business**. My favorite song is _Put on Your Sunday Clothes_ – a much better number than _Hello Dolly_, despite Louis Armstrong’s cameo in the latter. And I _loved_ Matthau’s dyspepsia – I thought he was fabulous. Fun choice, **DeVena** – I enjoyed it! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/3 "2005-03-21T18:50:09Z")
The movie was the source of my favorite Walter Matthau line ever (spoken to Streisand during a break from filming, when evidently she was playing prima donna): “I have more talent in my smallest fart than you do in your entire body.” ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/4 "2005-03-22T14:07:39Z")
Now wait - don’t get me wrong. I lurrrrrve this movie. But there is a reason they give Oscars for editing… and there is a reason this movie didn’t win one. (Nominated, but didn’t win.) It just seems like it would really benefit by being about 10 minutes more compact. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/5 "2005-03-22T16:59:15Z")
I saw the original Carol Channing \*Dolly \*with a friend of mine, whose only comment afterwards was “There wasn’t one memorable tune in the entire show.” Obviously, he didn’t remain a friend for long. I also saw the all-black cast with Pearl Bailey, who absolutely outshone both Carol and Babs. But I still love the movie, in spite of its flaws. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/6 "2005-03-22T17:05:47Z")
I saw the all-black cast too, but Pearl Bailey was indisposed that night, so her understudy went on. I wish I could remember her name – if there’s any justice, she’s a big star now, because she was wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/7 "2005-03-22T23:13:44Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I saw the all-black cast too, but Pearl Bailey was indisposed that night, so her understudy went on. I wish I could remember her name – if there’s any justice, she’s a big star now, because she was wonderful. Apparently, that was [Thelma Carpenter](http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9114645). And she actually got more of a [television and film career](http://imdb.com/name/nm0139470/) afterward than a [Broadway](http://ibdb.com/person.asp?ID=81080) one. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/8 "2005-03-23T03:32:07Z")
Cool – thanks, **jayjay**! That performance was truly memorable, and though I’ve thought about trying to find the info, I’ve never bothered to. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/9 "2005-03-23T05:13:36Z")
I’ll take the dissenting opinion. I have to admit that _Dolly_ isn’t one of my favorite musicals (for that matter Jerry Herman isn’t one of my favorite writers- he seems to have graduated with honors from the Roger De Bris “Keep it gay! Keep it gay! Keep it gay!” school of writing, not that there’s anything wrong with that), but I think the miscasting kills it. Dolly is an accomplished matchmaker as well as a widow who very much loved her husband who’s been dead for years… and she’s all of 26. (Perhaps she married at 13 and started her matchmaking business soon after, which I guess would have made her the little match girl). Plus, she and Walter Matthau had less chemistry than Burl Ives & Sophia Loren in _Desire Under the Elms_. The musical numbers, particularly the title number, were just choreographed to death, then subjected to necrophilia, then cremated and choreographed again, and the casting of Michael Crawford was one of those total misfires (though perhaps he was an improvement over Charles Nelson Reilly who initiated the role). Ugh… just ugh… (but that’s solely my opinion). Considering that previous people to take the role of Dolly included Shirley Booth, Carol Channing (see “ugh, non Streisand examples”), Phyllis Diller, Ethel Merman and Pearl Bailey I have to wonder what in hell they were thinking. Of course the role of Henry Higgins in the movie version of _My Fair Lady_ was actually offered to Cary Grant (who supposedly responded “Not only will I not appear in it, but if you don’t cast Rex Harrison I won’t even go see it”) so, Hollywood just didn’t really “get” the whole musical thing by then I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/10 "2005-03-23T08:59:11Z")
Hmm… _Hello, Dolly!_… Loved the play, not too crazy about the movie. And you know, the miscasting only bothers me a little, so I can’t really say for sure why I don’t like it, but… I don’t. I’ve always wished that they’d remake it for television, like they did with _Gypsy_ (and like they’re going to do with _Mame_). They could get someone like Patti LuPone to do it and they could include the songs that were cut (then later put back in for Ethel Merman). > [@Sampiro](#): > > Of course the role of Henry Higgins in the movie version of _My Fair Lady_ was actually offered to Cary Grant (who supposedly responded “Not only will I not appear in it, but if you don’t cast Rex Harrison I won’t even go see it”) so, Hollywood just didn’t really “get” the whole musical thing by then I suppose. Rex Harrison—ugh… You’re right, Hollywood didn’t get the whole musical thing. Including, apparently, the notion that a performer ought to be able to _sing_ to be cast in one. Although, I guess that’s really the fault of the Broadway production, where he originated the role. And it seems that everyone casting productions of the play since has come to think of Henry Higgins as a non-singing role. I’ve always wondered what it would be like to hear his songs actually sung. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/11 "2005-03-23T16:48:58Z")
There has always been debate over who was really responsible for the high level of quality in the musicals co-directed by Stanley Donen and Gene Kelly–which is surprising since I think the evidence is quite clear. Without Kelly, Donen directed _Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, Funny Face_ and _Royal Wedding_. Without Donen, the best Kelly could manage is _Hello Dolly!_. Could praise like that be any fainter? _HD!_ came about 2/3 of the way through the devolution of the film musical that occurred in the late 60s and early 70s: Misguided adaptations that were miscast, joyless, over-produced, and elephantine in their staging. There may be worse examples from the period (_Paint Your Wagon, Finian’s Rainbow, Man of La Mancha_), but none with a larger pedigree and talented ensemble. But it’s still a disaster. Clumsy, overlong, unfunny, with Babs being the black hole that everything eventually gets sucked into. Satchmo is a highlight, but it’s way too late in the game to really help by that point. Sorry I haven’t been a more regular participant in the SDMB MLS&DS, but with all the great film musicals out there, I’ve found many of the recent choices (including the next one) really uninspired. I venture to guess maybe that’s one reason why musicals aren’t more popular to new generations–quite a few of the better-known, fondly-remembered “canonized” musicals are some of the crappier ones. _Dolly!_ is no exception. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/12 "2005-03-23T17:08:10Z")
I’m sure I’m not alone in looking forward with tremendous anticipation to the announcement of your choice, since you’re up next after **Lamia**. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/13 "2005-03-23T17:22:45Z")
Sigh. But I can only pick one! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/14 "2005-03-23T17:38:46Z")
Yeah, I’ll admit my “I can’t believe we haven’t done…” list is pretty long, too! Ah well, I’m guessing only the hard-cores will sign up for the next round of picks. If there is one. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/15 "2005-03-23T18:27:16Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Dolly is an accomplished matchmaker as well as a widow who very much loved her husband who’s been dead for years… and she’s all of 26. I have the sinking suspicion that to Hollywood, a woman in her mid-twenties is the perfect choice to play a dowager role. > [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Sorry I haven’t been a more regular participant in the SDMB MLS&DS, but with all the great film musicals out there, I’ve found many of the recent choices (including the next one) really uninspired. Now now, don’t judge me too harshly until I do my big post. I’ve got my reasons. You may fire at will once I’ve presented them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-musical-lovers-salon-and-debating-society-presents-hello-dolly-1969/295555/16 "2005-03-23T18:46:00Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I have the sinking suspicion that to Hollywood, a woman in her mid-twenties is the perfect choice to play a dowager role. > > Now now, don’t judge me too harshly until I do my big post. I’ve got my reasons. You may fire at will once I’ve presented them. 😉 Nobody’s judging you. As they say: Hate the Film, Love the Film-Picker. 😛