# SDMB Retrospective US Presidential Elections 1904 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 23, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513 "2014-01-23T07:43:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/1 "2014-01-23T07:43:32Z")
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_presidential\_election,\_1904](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1904) Definitely voting for Teddy Roosevelt. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/2 "2014-01-23T15:13:26Z")
I would have loved to vote for the man I consider our greatest President. Theodore Roosevelt was simply the greatest, he brought America to the world stage and modern world. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/3 "2014-01-23T15:41:58Z")
Roosevelt held a bizarre and ultimately disastrous notion of executive power. He set the standard for looniness that presidents to this day try to mimic. Not to mention he was an unabashed Morgan crony. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/4 "2014-01-23T15:48:42Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Not to mention he was an unabashed Morgan crony. . . . 😕 So? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/5 "2014-01-23T15:56:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . 😕 So? While it may not bother you that national interests were subordinated to the banks, I’m not in favor of such a corrupt partnership. Debs would agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/6 "2014-01-23T15:59:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > While it may not bother you that national interests were subordinated to the banks . . . Waitaminnit, it’s a great big step from “TR was a Morgan crony” to “national interests were subordinated to the banks.” What in particular are you thinking of? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/7 "2014-01-23T17:21:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Waitaminnit, it’s a great big step from “TR was a Morgan crony” to “national interests were subordinated to the banks.” What in particular are you thinking of? TR was a Morgan crony, therefore national interests were subordinate to those of the banks. Aside from appointing Morgan men to high level cabinet positions, his shenanigans in Panama led to a large windfall for a Morgan led syndicate which owned the Panama Canal Company. > [@](#): > > The syndicate did well from the Panama revolution, purchasing the shares at two-thirds of par and selling them, after the revolution, for double the price. One member of the syndicate was especially fortunate: Teddy Roosevelt’s brother-in-law, Douglas E. Robinson, a director of Morgan’s Astor National Bank. For William Cromwell was named the fiscal agent of the new Republic of Panama, and Cromwell promptly put $6 million of the $10 million payoff the U.S. made to the Panamanian revolutionaries into New York City mortgages via the real estate firm of the same Douglas E. Robinson. Morgan associate George W Perkins assembled the Progressive Party in 1912 to split the Republican vote between Roosevelt and Taft, thereby installing Morgan man Woodrow Wilson in the presidency. Taft was an Ohio politician aligned with Morgan competitor John D Rockefeller. Under Wilson the great Morgan dream of cartelization of the banking industry was made possible with the Federal Reserve Act. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/8 "2014-01-23T17:35:20Z")
And before Roosevelt, national interests were subordinated to industry _and_ the banks. You put no value on his trust breaking? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/9 "2014-01-23T17:52:57Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Aside from appointing Morgan men to high level cabinet positions, his shenanigans in Panama led to a large windfall for a Morgan led syndicate which owned the Panama Canal Company. Where’s the national interest being suborned? Are you saying the canal project was not in our national interest? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/10 "2014-01-23T18:00:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > And before Roosevelt, national interests were subordinated to industry _and_ the banks. You put no value on his trust breaking? In which case do you think the consumer benefited? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/11 "2014-01-23T18:02:05Z")
More in the latter than the former, surely. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/12 "2014-01-23T18:16:11Z")
Despite the vigorous campaign by his opponent in this thread, TR holds a commanding lead so far, with 8 of the 11 votes cast. Bully! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/13 "2014-01-23T18:17:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > TR was a Morgan crony, therefore national interests were subordinate to those of the banks. Ermm, no, that is not a logically necessary consequence. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Aside from appointing Morgan men to high level cabinet positions, his shenanigans in Panama led to a large windfall for a Morgan led syndicate which owned the Panama Canal Company. So what? How does that subordinate the national interest to the banks’? **Someone** would have had to get that contract if the canal were going to happen at all. And the canal was a matter of national interest. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Morgan associate George W Perkins assembled the Progressive Party in 1912 to split the Republican vote between Roosevelt and Taft, thereby installing Morgan man Woodrow Wilson in the presidency. Taft was an Ohio politician aligned with Morgan competitor John D Rockefeller. Under Wilson the great Morgan dream of cartelization of the banking industry was made possible with the Federal Reserve Act. Perhaps, but we’re discussing the 1904 election here; what you impute to Wilson has nothing to do with TR. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/14 "2014-01-23T18:18:56Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Despite the vigorous campaign by his opponent in this thread, TR holds a commanding lead so far, with 8 of the 11 votes cast. Bully! And Debs is running second! Take **that,** ya mofo Socialist Labor splitters! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/15 "2014-01-23T18:22:03Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Where’s the national interest being suborned? Are you saying the canal project was not in our national interest? It was in the particular interest of the parties mentioned that Roosevelt proceed in the manner that he did. The Morgan syndicate doubled their money upon sale of their shares to the US government. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/16 "2014-01-23T18:30:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > More in the latter than the former, surely. I was unclear. Which particular trust busting exercise was beneficial to the consumer? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ermm, no, that is not a logically necessary consequence. In practice it was a consequence. > [@](#): > > So what? How does that subordinate the national interest to the banks’? **Someone** would have had to get that contract if the canal were going to happen at all. And the canal was a matter of national interest. So I guess it was also in the national interest for the cronies to get richer off the taxpayer. > [@](#): > > Perhaps, but we’re discussing the 1904 election here; what you impute to Wilson has nothing to do with TR. True but it helps to establish how Roosevelt worked hand in glove with the Morgan group. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/17 "2014-01-23T18:30:35Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > TR was a Morgan crony, therefore national interests were subordinate to those of the banks. > > Aside from appointing Morgan men to high level cabinet positions, his shenanigans in Panama led to a large windfall for a Morgan led syndicate which owned the Panama Canal Company. > > Morgan associate George W Perkins assembled the Progressive Party in 1912 to split the Republican vote between Roosevelt and Taft, thereby installing Morgan man Woodrow Wilson in the presidency. Taft was an Ohio politician aligned with Morgan competitor John D Rockefeller. Under Wilson the great Morgan dream of cartelization of the banking industry was made possible with the Federal Reserve Act. BTW, where did you get the quote in that post? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/18 "2014-01-23T18:30:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It was in the particular interest of the parties mentioned that Roosevelt proceed in the manner that he did. The Morgan syndicate doubled their money upon sale of their shares to the US government. Yes, but where’s the subornation? What happened that was not in the US national interest? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/19 "2014-01-23T18:33:07Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Yes, but where’s the subornation? What happened that was not in the US national interest? The taxpayers subsidized the wealth of the Morgan syndicate. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513/20 "2014-01-23T18:36:05Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The taxpayers subsidized the wealth of the Morgan syndicate. Was there any alternative to that if we wanted to continue the canal project? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-retrospective-us-presidential-elections-1904/679513.md?page=2)