# SDMB Team Fortress 2 server **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 3, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186 "2011-01-03T01:48:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/221 "2011-06-28T05:26:29Z")
The Persian Persuader only has no random crits as a downside, just as a counter-example. But you seem to be missing the point - it doesn’t really matter if no random crits is the _only_ downside - it’s meant to be part of the changes of the weapons that balance the upsides that it brings. Take the Clayhead moor for example - it has .5 second longer charge duration but no random crits and -15 health on wearer. So yeah, it’s not _only_ lacking in critical hits, there’s also a health penalty, but the lack of criticals was a big part (the majority) of the downside. If they feel that the weapon is balanced with the .5 second charge upside being offset by the no random crits -15 health downsides, and you remove the random crits downside, the weapon is still unbalanced. It has had half its downside removed, making it better than what it replaces. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/222 "2011-06-28T05:42:45Z")
> [@](#): > > It has had half its downside removed, making it better than what it replaces. No it doesn’t. There is still the healthy penalty, just because one of two penalties is taken away doesn’t automatically make it more powerful than what it replaces. It makes it pretty close yes, but as long as there is one penalty, especially a health penalty, it won’t be better than the default. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/223 "2011-06-28T05:53:37Z")
So then you’re saying that all weapons that have a no random crit penalties are imbalanced and bad, because even if you remove that penalty, they’re still worse than the default weapons? So in the default state, they must be significantly worse. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/224 "2011-06-28T07:17:21Z")
In general, yes. A high percentage of the default weapons are better than the new stuff. The new things all being situational and in some cases just plain no good. As has been mentioned to the new players, you do not at all need any of the new weapons/items to help be more successful or threatening in the game. The default items are all very well balanced and all of the updated items are balanced very well against the default specifically so people are not required to buy/find/trade for certain items lest they be uncompetitive with people having played for longer. And as I said, few items are better than the default _in certain situations_, but none of the situations are with random criticals turned off. If you’re on defense, the Scottish Resistance for the demoman for example has its benefits that can outweight the default sticky launcher, but not usually as it is harder to make offensive pushes with the SR to get your team some breathing room. But in general, the default weapons/items are yes, simply better than the additional items, with or without random criticals and I’m pretty sure they were all designed that way as well. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/225 "2011-06-28T16:23:55Z")
The weapons were intended to be sidegrades - balanced but different. You could argue that they haven’t actually achieved this, but removing downsides from weapons certainly disrupts the balance they intended. Anyway, if more people want a crit mod or a vote for a crit mod I’ll give it a try. So far no one has talked to me about it. Anyway, I want to try something new tonight. We’ve had CTF games, especially on doublecross, where there were just coincidentally no engineers. And IMO the games flowed a lot better. CTF tends to drag on because sentries are too effective, making defense too easy. Without the engineers, you can still have defense - you just have to actually fight people instead of relying on your gun to shut them down and have them wait for help. Without the engineers, the capping is more frequent and free flowing - instead of having tough to crack defenses but then an easy time getting out because those defenses are blown up, you instead have a continual defensive action - people are always trying to fight you on the way out. People set up makeshift defensive positions around where the flag dropped. The other team makes an attack to pick it up and advance it 50 feet before the defensive team catches up and defends. Both sides are continually engaged in mobile offense and defense across the map. It makes for a much more interesting game, IMO. So I want to experiment with playing some CTF maps while turning the engineer class off. If people don’t like we don’t have to continue it, but I think it may make the ctf experience more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/226 "2011-06-28T18:01:02Z")
The problem with CTF is the inevitable placement of the intel room behind the enemy spawn. You need to kill the same people three times to get to the intel - once as you’re crossing, once as they respawn, and again as you’re coming out. Multiply this by the entire enemy team, and add in a total lack of health pickups to let you cope with that kind of attrition. It heavily discourages offense, especially on a casual server like this one, which results in everyone just squatting in their base all game, which just makes the problem still worse. I actually welcome the usual engineer camping in the intel room, because that’s one less person zerging you from their resupply. A sentry is a lot easier to get rid of than the endless respawn waves. All it really serves is to keep kamikaze scouts from completely dictating the game, which is a useful function. There’s not really anything you can do to make the stock CTF maps a fun experience. If the game is actually moving, that just means teams are stacked or they don’t give a crap - which means they’re not enjoying it. I know I spend most of a CTF game doing my part to let enemy flag carriers through unmolested, just to get to the next map quicker. Maybe Sawmill will work, I haven’t put much time on it, but it’s the only one that has a forward intel room placement. ---
**Author:** ![Heller\_Highwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@Heller\_Highwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heller_Highwater)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/227 "2011-06-28T19:21:06Z")
Sawmill isn’t too bad, as far as CTF maps go. The intel room only has 1 entrance, so it can become an engie fest, but the small size also gives it some vulnerability to demo/soldier spam. I don’t _usually_ remember seeing massive stalemates on it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/228 "2011-06-29T01:55:16Z")
Well, for some reason TF2 was totally mauling the house’s internet connection, so rather than (1) play in still frames and (2) keep Eva from using the internet as well, I gave up. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/229 "2011-06-29T03:42:29Z")
Fun! I think I’m gone for the evening, but I’ll definitely be around in the future. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/230 "2011-06-29T21:13:34Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > I know I spend most of a CTF game doing my part to let enemy flag carriers through unmolested, just to get to the next map quicker. IIRC, I think there were some gentlemen’s agreements in QWTF/TFC ctf maps to not chase or really even harm enemy offensive players on their way to your base if you were an offensive class as well. The rationale being that it just ruins the play for all the strict defensive classes since all the offensive players just end up killing each other in the middle of the map. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/231 "2011-06-29T21:23:09Z")
> [@RetroVertigo](#): > > I usually just pick random. Is that frowned upon? Quite the opposite. Its usually a good practice to never pick a team unless you’re specifically trying to “un-stack” a team. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/232 "2011-06-30T04:29:48Z")
And it doesn’t matter anyway, when you pick “random” it just puts you into whichever team has less players in it. No different than if you’d actually chosen the only team available. It’s only truly random if you actually have a choice in teams. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/233 "2011-06-30T06:26:07Z")
If teams have the same number of people at the time you join then it’ll pick one at random. New video: after I crafted the new demo set I recorded all of the shield bash/charge kills I got, the first 50 or so. A few of the replays didn’t work unfortunately - awesome ones with me knocking people off cliffs and stuff - but there are still plenty of good ones. Shield charge kills are the most satisfying in the game aside from maybe arrow/flare reflects. There was one issue though. When you’re using the replay editor, any clip that you start during a time that a capture point is contested at all says “alert! the control point is being contested!” regardless of whether it started being contested during the replay or not. Since these clips were mostly 4-8 seconds long, the video was basically a spam of that warning. So while I generally find music over youtube videos cheesy, it seemed less annoying in this particular case. That’s when **fluiddruid** stepped in. She said “you’ve got to put in that ‘let the bodies hit the floor’ song, it’s my favorite song ever”. I said that would be way too cheesy and cliche, but then she said she’d ban me from the boards if I didn’t. So that explains that. Anyway… [My first 50 splendid screen kills](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnMW7XC_6Xg) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/234 "2011-06-30T12:37:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Shield charge kills are the most satisfying in the game aside from maybe arrow/flare reflects. Personally, I find wrenching a spy to death pretty satisfying. Especially if he’s sapped my stuff first. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/235 "2011-06-30T13:03:51Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Personally, I find wrenching a spy to death pretty satisfying. Especially if he’s sapped my stuff first. I have [one of those](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zzhlBdfUww) too. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/236 "2011-06-30T17:04:39Z")
What about killing people with the scout Sandman baseball? ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/237 "2011-06-30T19:11:13Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > What about killing people with the scout Sandman baseball? I’ve never managed to do that directly, but I have gotten an aid kill a few times that way. (Particularly fun with heavies.) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/238 "2011-06-30T20:26:53Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > A few of the replays didn’t work unfortunately You, too? It seems most of my replays cause TF2 to crash with a message about a missing string or somesuch. Very annoying. Here’s one that I did manage to create: [Roast beef](http://youtu.be/fgSAhrvt_qg) ---
**Author:** ![Amblydoper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@Amblydoper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amblydoper)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/239 "2011-07-01T18:52:27Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > What about killing people with the scout Sandman baseball? Some one smacked me in the head with a baseball in the medieval map on Tuesday’s game. Considering how that game went, it was most likely one of my teammates. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186/240 "2011-07-01T20:34:56Z")
> [@Amblydoper](#): > > Some one smacked me in the head with a baseball in the medieval map on Tuesday’s game. Considering how that game went, it was most likely one of my teammates. I think by the end of that rotation half my team was dominating me. I saw more “Nemisis” tags above my own guys than the other team. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-team-fortress-2-server/566186.md?page=13)