# SDMBer religion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454 "2005-12-20T14:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/61 "2005-12-20T18:56:01Z")
> [@metj](#): > > Christian > Specifically Pentecostal > More specifically Assembly of God > > I’m very curious to know if there are any other AG people on this board. Here! ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/62 "2005-12-20T19:05:56Z")
> [@BlueLine](#): > > My agnosticism revolves around my not knowing what kind/type/persona of creator/first cause there is - although it is taken on faith that there is a first cause. People who don’t know ‘whether or not’ there is a creator/higher power/first cause are just ‘undecided’ in my book. > > Is my personal definition of agnosticism not in line with everyone else’s? Here’s a complimentary definition: > > ag·nosti·cal·ly adv. > > Word History: An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.? > [@BlueLine](#): > > Is the term ‘agnostic’ squishy? I always thought the term ‘agnostic’ meant someone who believed in there being ‘more’ to life than what science or human reason could ever show, and in fact that ‘more’ being attributed to a higher presence/God/creator, but that it was simply something that we could never prove or show to complete satisfaction. Your definition of the above is a weaker version of that, essentially just the latter half of mine. Discuss? Sure. Let’s discuss. From the way you define it I would fall in your “undecided” category. If I’m reading your posts correctly you believe that there is ‘more’ and that there is a ‘higher presence.’ But, as an agnostic, you acknowledge it’s unprovable. Here you’ve made me think. I like that in a person. It’s one of the two things I like best about this board. (The other being I learn new stuff from it.) I have to go back to my dictionary’s definition (a person who thinks it is impossible to know whether there is a God or a future life, or anything beyond material phenemena). Yes, it is basically the second half of yours. And now I have to admit – that without even realizing it – I have always considered people who believe, even if they admit it’s not provable, to not be agnostic. They were all believers to me. Yet, I have to say that as long as they acknowledge that it could never be “proven” or “known” that they actually do fit the definition of agnostic. Hmm, technically that would make the Christians who admitted that it’s a matter of faith agnostics. Fascinating. I find the athetists who “know” (as opposed to those who simply believe) there is **no** god and nothing more than this life to be similiar to the religious folks who “know” there **is** a god and something after this life. What’s up with all this “knowing”? Unless someone’s got some independent, verified facts isn’t it all a matter of belief? So, to get back to the OP… I am someone who doesn’t believe there’s a divine power and doesn’t disbelieve there’s a divine power, and the same holds true for life after death. I simply don’t know. And until I do know – something I’m reasonably sure won’t be happening in this lifetime – I’ll just go along living my life the best I know how, let the chips fall where they may. ---
**Author:** ![BlueLine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@BlueLine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueLine)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/63 "2005-12-20T19:15:20Z")
> [@lalaith](#): > > Sure. Let’s discuss. A good answer, and thorough. After I wrote you, I actually found on Wikipedia a pretty darn good description of MY form of agnosticism. Check it out. You may also find your particular flavor among the flavors described. > **[Agnostic theism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism)** > > Agnostic theism, agnostotheism or agnostitheism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. An agnostic theist believes in the existence of a God or Gods, but regards the basis of this proposition as unknown or inherently unknowable. The agnostic theist may also or alternatively be agnostic regarding the properties of the God or gods that they believe in. > There are numerous beliefs that can be included in agnostic theism, such as fideism, the doctrine that knowledge d... Basically, I think it also comes down to emphasis. I strongly emphasize my strong belief in a higher power/creator, but note that it is not something that is truly or perfectly knowable, and therefore I’m not evangelical either way. Or at least I don’t really try to. You are correct, though, it all comes down to belief in the end. Why anyone thinks that they can actually KNOW anything with perfect knowledge is ridiculous - we’re all agnostics and tied to belief in one way or another, and that goes for both people who ‘know’. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/64 "2005-12-20T20:08:37Z")
Atheist. I do believe I’m the only one here. ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/65 "2005-12-20T20:13:33Z")
Apatheist. I don’t think there’s any god, and I really don’t care. I subscribe to the Carlin theory: when you die, your soul goes to a garage in Buffalo. ---
**Author:** ![YaWanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bbce88/32.png) [@YaWanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YaWanna)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/66 "2005-12-20T20:17:04Z")
Christian, of the variety that came out of the Stone-Campbell movement. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/67 "2005-12-20T20:19:20Z")
Here ya go: I’m a smart guy. As a smart guy, I can concede that there’s an awful lot of amazing things that have happened by happenstance. More than I think would be conincidental. I was raised Methodist, Then Presbyterian, and went to Catholic Junior and High schools. I believe such an entitiy is beyond my comprehension. I believe It’s pantheon isn’t a club. Meaning, ‘Sorry, the correct answer was _Buddhism_. Sorry, game over.’ Doesn’t hold a lot of water with me. I believe the way It has exposed Its IT-ness to me is through Christianity. This does not violate other religious faiths. In fact, if you look at the top 5-10 things the big religions teach, it’s mostly ‘Be good to each other’. All this said, I’m a smart guy. I don’t NEED TO HEAR ‘This is my Body’ twice a week, every week of the year, for however many years I’ve got. Wrote memorization and repetition as the road to salvation doesn’t do it for me. Having someone sell their own brand is the quickest way to turn me off. So. Am I religious? You betcha. Wanna call it Christianity? Sure, I’ll buy that. Do I actively practice? nope. I don’t practice typing on the keyboard anymore, but I do it pretty well too. I hope to educate my kids as they get a little older, but honestly, we get about 4 hours a week that are unallocated and crikey if they aren’t all on Sunday morning. ---
**Author:** ![kelvinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@kelvinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelvinator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/68 "2005-12-20T20:31:30Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Why would you believe some of the magic, but not all of it? Think of the Bible as historical fiction (akin to The DaVinci Code). Sure there are provable facts in both, realistic locations and people. Dates can be confirmed. But there is a lot in both that is pure hogwash and alot that can make you go “Hmmmm…” (Personally, I thought DVC was entertaining but mindless; bubblegum for the brain). When the Bible was written people didn’t understand evolution, cosmology and quantum mechanics. I don’t deny that those things happened (I was kicked out of 1st grade catechism calss because I asked when God created the dinosaurs I saw at the museum). I believe in evolution because I have read enough to understand that it is the most logical explanation for how Homo sapiens developed. I’ve read enough about the Big Bang theory (it is still a theory, folks. [Broadly accepted](http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bb1.html) just like evolution but still a theory) the believe that it is the most logical reason the known universe is the way it is. However, there are too many aspects of our known universe that are just too pat to have happened randomly: If we were to make the strong nuclear force 3/10 of 1% stronger or 2% weaker, life would be impossible at any time in the universe. If the neutron were 1/10th of 1% less massive than what we observe, then the universe would make so many neutrons that all of the matter in the universe would very quickly collapse into neutron stars and black holes, and life would be impossible. If we made the neutron 1/10th of 1% more massive than what we observe, then the universe would make so few neutrons, that there wouldn’t be enough neutrons to make Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, etc. These are the elements that are essential for life. If the universe is too massive, the mass density too great, then very quickly all the matter in the universe is converted from Hydrogen into elements heavier than iron, which would render life impossible because the universe would be devoid of Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc. If the universe has too little mass, then fusion would work so inefficiently that all that the universe would ever produce would be Hydrogen, or Hydrogen plus a small amount of Helium. But there again, the Carbon and Oxygen we need for life would be missing. If the planet rotates too quickly, you get too many tornadoes and hurricanes. If it rotates too slowly, it gets too cold at night and too hot during the day. We don’t want it to be 170 degrees during the day, nor do we want it to be below –100 at night, because that’s not ideal for life. I don’t hold with the idea of an actively involved diety, merely an initial creative force/being/god/pasta, that put everything “just-so” and set it rolling. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/69 "2005-12-20T20:56:47Z")
> [@kelvinator](#): > > Think of the Bible as historical fiction (akin to The DaVinci Code). Sure there are provable facts in both, realistic locations and people. Dates can be confirmed. But there is a lot in both that is pure hogwash and alot that can make you go “Hmmmm…” (Personally, I thought DVC was entertaining but mindless; bubblegum for the brain). > When the Bible was written people didn’t understand evolution, cosmology and quantum mechanics. I don’t deny that those things happened (I was kicked out of 1st grade catechism calss because I asked when God created the dinosaurs I saw at the museum). I believe in evolution because I have read enough to understand that it is the most logical explanation for how Homo sapiens developed. I’ve read enough about the Big Bang theory (it is still a theory, folks. [Broadly accepted](http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bb1.html) just like evolution but still a theory) the believe that it is the most logical reason the known universe is the way it is. > However, there are too many aspects of our known universe that are just too pat to have happened randomly: > If we were to make the strong nuclear force 3/10 of 1% stronger or 2% weaker, life would be impossible at any time in the universe. If the neutron were 1/10th of 1% less massive than what we observe, then the universe would make so many neutrons that all of the matter in the universe would very quickly collapse into neutron stars and black holes, and life would be impossible. > If we made the neutron 1/10th of 1% more massive than what we observe, then the universe would make so few neutrons, that there wouldn’t be enough neutrons to make Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, etc. These are the elements that are essential for life. > If the universe is too massive, the mass density too great, then very quickly all the matter in the universe is converted from Hydrogen into elements heavier than iron, which would render life impossible because the universe would be devoid of Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc. > If the universe has too little mass, then fusion would work so inefficiently that all that the universe would ever produce would be Hydrogen, or Hydrogen plus a small amount of Helium. But there again, the Carbon and Oxygen we need for life would be missing. > If the planet rotates too quickly, you get too many tornadoes and hurricanes. If it rotates too slowly, it gets too cold at night and too hot during the day. We don’t want it to be 170 degrees during the day, nor do we want it to be below –100 at night, because that’s not ideal for life. > > I don’t hold with the idea of an actively involved diety, merely an initial creative force/being/god/pasta, that put everything “just-so” and set it rolling. The concept of something creating something else. Don’t you think it’s just a tad “man-made”? Why would he create something? Why didn’t he just float around the universe being ‘da man’? Why bother if you’re not going to do anything with it? ---
**Author:** ![kelvinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@kelvinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelvinator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/70 "2005-12-20T21:18:55Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > The concept of something creating something else. Don’t you think it’s just a tad “man-made”? Why would he create something? Why didn’t he just float around the universe being ‘da man’? Why bother if you’re not going to do anything with it? Why did someone create a pet rock? Why do artists paint? I don’t claim to understand the why or the how. I never have and probably never will. Believing there was some creative force does not require me to look for the Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything (yeah, yeah it’s 42). I can believe and be content with that. I don’t need to go to some musty old cathedral and do my Papal Aerobics. I don’t have to unroll a rug and bow my head to the east 5 times a day. I don’t have to wear a beanie and give up on surf-and-turf. I also don’t have to imply that people who believe other than I do are somehow insane, simple-minded, misguided, fundamentalists, antagonistic or pathetic. Proselytizing, whether for or against a creator, can be offensive. I don’t like the Jehovah Witnesses preaching that I am going to be condemned to Hell (or New Jersey) if I don’t accept their version of God. I also don’t like atheists dismissing or deriding my faith by calling me delusional and suggesting that I belong at the laughing academy. ---
**Author:** ![gooftroopag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gooftroopag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gooftroopag)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/71 "2005-12-20T21:39:46Z")
> [@kelvinator](#): > > If we made the neutron 1/10th of 1% more massive than what we observe, then the universe would make so few neutrons, that there wouldn’t be enough neutrons to make Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, etc. These are the elements that are essential for life. Life as we know it. It is possible that life exists without these elements. 🙂 > [@kelvinator](#): > > I also don’t like atheists dismissing or deriding my faith by calling me delusional and suggesting that I belong at the laughing academy. “laughing academy” - I love it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kelvinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9fc348/32.png) [@kelvinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelvinator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/72 "2005-12-20T21:48:42Z")
> [@gooftroopag](#): > > Life as we know it. It is possible that life exists without these elements. 🙂 As the atheists so often say, “Prove it!” 😃 Just kidding. You’re right, it could exist. But we wouldn’t. > [@gooftroopag](#): > > “laughing academy” - I love it! 😃 Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![usar\_jag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f0a364/32.png) [@usar\_jag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usar_jag)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/73 "2005-12-20T22:17:49Z")
[python]I’m Protestant, and fiercely proud of it![/python] Specifically, I’m Lutheran (of the ELCA variety.) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/74 "2005-12-20T22:21:52Z")
> [@kelvinator](#): > > I would appreciate a poll of what everyone’s religion is. I don’t believe in Religion. Where’s that put me? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/75 "2005-12-20T22:53:22Z")
I’ve recently decided that what I am is most properly termed “Antagonostic.” That is, I don’t really believe in any normally considered religious conventions… …However if **you** insist on telling me about **your** belief system I’m more than happy to make jokes about it, be condescendingly snide for the rest of the conversation, and maybe even poke you with pointy sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/76 "2005-12-20T23:54:24Z")
Atheist. And I would state that people who are “strong” or “weak” atheists aren’t atheists. That’s like saying you’re a strong or weak disbeliever in the existence of Santa Claus; if you don’t believe you’re an atheist, if you kinda do believe (in some magical power) even slightly then you’re agnostic. ---
**Author:** ![MrFantsyPants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MrFantsyPants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFantsyPants)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/77 "2005-12-21T00:09:04Z")
atheist. But I do believe William Shatner. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/78 "2005-12-21T00:09:13Z")
I’m Christian but I don’t attend a church or adhere to doctrine from any specific denomination. I guess I’d be called Liberal Christian. It’s all about the love, baby. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/79 "2005-12-21T00:32:49Z")
I used to say agnostic, but these days I say non-Christian. Some Christians then say I’m an atheist. Spirited discussion then ensues, during which I adamantly deny, and they look puzzled. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454/80 "2005-12-21T00:36:30Z")
Episcopalian. (I tallied the results of the last survey [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4973644&postcount=367). This thread seems to have been already been diverted from being a pure survey…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmber-religion/336454.md?page=5)