# SEAL or Gurkha vs normal people **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639 "2011-08-30T15:51:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/41 "2011-09-02T19:36:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **China Guy** : > American Kenpo was developed to take on multiple attackers at once. Ended in tears though as James Mitose (?) died after being stabbed. Back when I was studying kenpo, almost none of the training was based on multiple opponents. I think there might have been one or two techniques for very specific situations, but most of it was based on the assumption of 1-on-1. > [@](#): > > Quoth **Triskadecamus** : > Hmmmm. The pedagogical reflex in me wants to know why the hell that is true. We got a whole lot of guys who are organized into groups, and trained in combat. We even train them in individual unarmed combat. Why the hell isn’t there military training, hell even a military research effort in how cooperating unarmed combatants can maximize their effectiveness against armed opponents? (I do think that the first goal in such a combat strategy would be to turn at least one of your team members into an armed opponent, but that seems a given.) As I understand it, unarmed combat training in the military isn’t primarily intended to increase capability in unarmed fighting itself (since soldiers are so seldom unarmed), but to teach aggressiveness. And I’d also like to emphasize here that this thread is about elite fighters vs. _normal, untrained_ people. Even if one-strike knockouts are rare, an elite fighter _will_ generally be able to take an untrained opponent out of the fight with a single blow, somehow or another. Maybe it’s not a knockout: Maybe it’s knocking the wind out of the guy. Maybe it’s breaking a bone. Maybe it’s going for the eyes. Maybe it’s just causing enough pain that the other guy gives up. Now, a trained opponent will be able to make it through most of those things and fight on, but against an ordinary schmo, there are a lot of options. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/42 "2011-09-02T23:33:31Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > With the best will in the world, that is a group of people sparring with a single person - with all of them trying not to deliberately hurt the other side. > > I have never seen that scenario played out in brawls. I granted in my post that “it wasn’t full contact.” The point is that both sides were not trying to seriously injure the other. Using his full faculties he could have easily snapped my ankle (as opposed to letting me tap out). I’m not saying this anecdote guarantees that every trained individual would win out in a group scenario, but I can see how it is POSSIBLE. Untrained individuals often don’t understand the serious mistakes they make in a fight. For example, throwing that bar-brawl wind-up hay-maker can easily get someone knocked down (or out) by a trained individual. Or grabbing somebody from behind without the proper hand grip will last for all of about three seconds before they break free. I remember the first few times I sparred, it was a serious blow to the ego how someone with just a few years (or even months of training) could easily put me in my place. In the years that have followed I have seen it happen with every newbie, even the ones who thought they were “street fighters” before. Also, as other posters have said - when I say trained, I mean trained specifically in hand-to-hand combat (muay thai, BJJ, boxing, wrestling, etc.). Being special forces alone doesn’t make you an unarmed combat expert. ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/43 "2011-09-02T23:53:30Z")
my brother was a crazed Dallas streetfighter back in the 60’s and 70’s when it was really fighting with no guns or killing and no assault charges or lawsuits, just a 32.50 fine for disorderly contact if you ever were arrested. you could even fight cops, but if you won they took you to the substation and beat the stink out of you, then locked you up til the bruises healed. nobody wins every fight, he was put in the hospital a couple times by a single guy, but there were several times he took out multiple opponents, most notably all four bouncers at the old Greenhouse Disco in Austin (i got him out of jail the next day for 32.50). what counts in a fight is pure unreasonable rage and a love of seeing blood spilled, even your own. watch out for the little guy… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/44 "2011-09-03T00:37:56Z")
Wait, we are using “vs.” in the sense of “Ron Jeremy vs. Ginger Lynn,” right? ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/45 "2011-09-05T19:20:15Z")
Well, I think that the SEAL would stand a pretty good chance, especially if he distracted the 4 by doing that ball on the nose trick first! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/46 "2011-09-05T20:01:41Z")
It seems to me that motivation is everything. If the scenario is an armed gunman coming into your college classroom, and you know that if you’re passive you’ll die in the next two minutes, you’ve got a different incentive to throw yourself at the attacker than if it’s an asshole at the bar who’s beating someone else up and you’d kind of like to break up the fight–or even if you’re a member of a gang looking for retribution or whatever Hollywood cliche works. I can imagine pretty easily how four suicidal-because-of-circumstances people could take out a single well-trained opponent. But if it’s four people who can see another way to survive the situation, their morale is pretty likely to break along with the first guy’s nose. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/47 "2011-09-05T20:04:50Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Let’s say it’s like the mma octagon and you have 1 highly trained and in top physical shape SEAL against 5 ordinary guys who are untrained and in fair but not exceptional physical condition. Who would win? If the combatants are in standard MMA tiny panties? I’d say the audience. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/48 "2011-09-06T18:30:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > And he was armed with a kukri, which is basically a machete, while his opponents were armed with fake guns (really!). And he was only facing 40 of them in the retelling. This is in no way intended to disparage the man, who did a seriously brave thing, but this probably isn’t a good indicator of how an unarmed fight against a Gurkha would go. As I recall, he was armed with an edged weapon, his attackers could only come at him one at a time, he didn’t actually fight more than six or seven of them, and the rest fled because they mistakenly thought that there was more than one Gurkha. The guy also suffered a pretty serious injury (to the hand, I believe). He’s still one of my heroes, though. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/49 "2011-09-06T19:19:05Z")
For what it is worth, I witnessed 2 SEALS drop 6 Marines in a bar in no time flat. It was fast, ferocious and completed in what had to be under a minute. Contributing factors I know of were the Marines were drunk enough to pick a fight with one of my fellow sailors but not as drunk as my friend. No clue how much alcohol the SEALs had consumed ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639/50 "2011-09-06T20:11:30Z")
Well, I know one Seal I could have killed very easily. _Everybody_ has to sleep at some point in time, and he was in bed next to me for the time I was living with him … easy peasy - was even my choice of knife or gun in the headboard :smack: Though I suppose I could have poisoned him with something since I did pretty much all the cooking.😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-or-gurkha-vs-normal-people/594639.md?page=2)