# SEAL that Shot Bin Laden complaining about no pension. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 11, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003 "2013-02-11T18:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/41 "2013-02-14T12:22:06Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > It would seem, from the list of physical ailments he suffers, that the would be a shoo-in for a medical discharge…with a pension. > > Why did he leave? My guess is that he saw a big payday and didn’t think he needed to stick around. > > It strikes me as a horrible idea, if you’re a SEAL, to get married and start a family. What sense does that make? “Hey, I’m subject to deployment at any time, and I’ll be gone for years! Let’s get married and have kids!” If he wanted a medical discharge and pension he is doing it wrong. That is something you get while you are still in. In the Army if you are injured and can’t continue with your job they put you in a medical holding company. There all your medical appointments and such are taken care of. And the process for a medical discharge and pension begin. You stay there getting full pay until discharge. I’m sure the navy has something similar. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/42 "2013-02-14T15:09:25Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > You seem knowledgeable about that. What happens if you were wanting to stay in for 20 and they booted you because of budget cuts ( as is likely with sequestration )? I don’t know if sequestration has an impact on manning strength, because from my (limited) understanding, manning level changes occur based on forecasting. At any point in time, a service can decide it needs to open or close the floodgates. If it decides to close the floodgates, there are certain “force shaping” tools it can use. Usually, for the Navy, we resort to continuation boards (looking at a certain segment of the officer or enlisted population who have not promoted on time and reviewing them to see if they can continue or get booted out), gate screening (e.g., Department Head screens where they review your record instead of auto-plugging you into the head of Operations, Maintenance, etc), physical standards (making it harder to pass the sit-ups, run, push-ups, and body-fat tests), and, as **FCM** mentioned, changes in how they retain people in certain rates. I believe all services except the Navy have “sanctuary,” wherein Majors and above (and I believe E-7’s and above) can’t be booted before 20 based on continuation boards. In any case, the bottom line is that if you want to stay in and you are not in sanctuary, you always run the risk of not making the next grade or getting to your 20. This may happen because of budgets or manning level changes–it really doesn’t matter, because the threat can happen any time. It seems like the Navy has been tweaking its manning levels for the last 10 years. When I entered the Navy, I entered in a year group where they hired too few officers and it was expected that those in my year group would breeze through to CDR or CAPT. Then 9/11 happened, and all the sudden it was much more difficult to just make LCDR, much less any of the typical wickets needed to be competitive for CDR and CAPT. ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/43 "2013-02-14T15:11:27Z")
Sometimes you don’t have to put in the 20 years. I was able to retire with 15 back in 1995 because of budget cuts and they were trying to reduce the military. I got the same benefits as I would have after 20 except 37% of base pay instead of 50%. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/44 "2013-02-15T11:20:29Z")
> [@flyboy](#): > > I don’t know if sequestration has an impact on manning strength, because from my (limited) understanding, manning level changes occur based on forecasting. At any point in time, a service can decide it needs to open or close the floodgates. If it decides to close the floodgates, there are certain “force shaping” tools it can use. Usually, for the Navy, we resort to continuation boards (looking at a certain segment of the officer or enlisted population who have not promoted on time and reviewing them to see if they can continue or get booted out), gate screening (e.g., Department Head screens where they review your record instead of auto-plugging you into the head of Operations, Maintenance, etc), physical standards (making it harder to pass the sit-ups, run, push-ups, and body-fat tests), and, as **FCM** mentioned, changes in how they retain people in certain rates. > > I believe all services except the Navy have “sanctuary,” wherein Majors and above (and I believe E-7’s and above) can’t be booted before 20 based on continuation boards. In any case, the bottom line is that if you want to stay in and you are not in sanctuary, you always run the risk of not making the next grade or getting to your 20. This may happen because of budgets or manning level changes–it really doesn’t matter, because the threat can happen any time. It seems like the Navy has been tweaking its manning levels for the last 10 years. When I entered the Navy, I entered in a year group where they hired too few officers and it was expected that those in my year group would breeze through to CDR or CAPT. Then 9/11 happened, and all the sudden it was much more difficult to just make LCDR, much less any of the typical wickets needed to be competitive for CDR and CAPT. Hmmmm, so the service can just boot you out. Seems a poor way to show gratitude for your willingness to submit to abuse and potential to die horribly. When I was in the NZ army, we signed up till retirement age, and we chose if we wanted out earlier, but they couldn’t discharge us unless we commited a crime. That was a long time ago though, and I don’t know if it has changed since. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/45 "2013-02-15T12:07:45Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Hmmmm, so the service can just boot you out. Seems a poor way to show gratitude for your willingness to submit to abuse and potential to die horribly. > When I was in the NZ army, we signed up till retirement age, and we chose if we wanted out earlier, but they couldn’t discharge us unless we commited a crime. > > That was a long time ago though, and I don’t know if it has changed since. It is possible. It is not likely unless you are a total shitbag. At all times you have to take control of your own career. I know many people who had to transition to a different job because theirs was over strength. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/46 "2013-02-15T12:13:00Z")
On military sites I check out there was a lot of speculation about this. A lot of people are sceptical about the source. The language of source did not ring true. For one thing calling it SEAL team 6 is like showing a cross to a vampire to those in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/47 "2013-02-15T13:25:49Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > You seem knowledgeable about that. What happens if you were wanting to stay in for 20 and they booted you because of budget cuts ( as is likely with sequestration )? It’s mostly been answered, but mind that at least in theory the armed forces serve the United States and its people and exist for its purposes and needs, and individual soldiers exist in fulfillment of those purposes. There is no entitlement to a job for 20 years, the needs fo the armed forces are paramount to individual benefits. That being said, in the Army at least it was basically unheard of that anyone half decent ever left without wanting to leave themselves. Situations where they’d be assigned doing stuff they wouldn’t like and etc and chose to leave. My understanding is the Navy, being much smaller in personnel and with a higher proportion of more selective specialties and being generally more selective overall, it may be a little different. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/48 "2013-02-15T14:13:37Z")
Times are changing, and the forces are downsizing. Our budgets are already taking huge cuts. I know plenty of people-Officers and Enlisted-that have been forced out for failing to advance. All were good people, not shitbags. In any case, I wouldn’t want a system that guaranteed you a pension the second you sign up. I can’t imagine how many total shitbags I’d be forced to work with. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/49 "2013-02-15T17:34:24Z")
A rebuttal from the Rear Admiral in charge of the SEALs; > **[U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics,...](https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news?lite)** > > Get the latest news headlines and top stories from NBCNews.com. Find videos and news articles on the latest stories in the US. “This former SEAL made a deliberate and informed decision to leave the Navy several years short of retirement status,” Rear Adm. Sean Pybus, commander of Naval Special Warfare Command, wrote in a statement. “Months ahead of his separation, he was counseled on status and benefits, and provided with options to continue his career until retirement eligible. Claims to the contrary in these matters are false.” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/50 "2013-02-15T17:43:09Z")
> [@flyboy](#): > > Times are changing, and the forces are downsizing. Our budgets are already taking huge cuts. I know plenty of people-Officers and Enlisted-that have been forced out for failing to advance. All were good people, not shitbags. > > In any case, I wouldn’t want a system that guaranteed you a pension the second you sign up. I can’t imagine how many total shitbags I’d be forced to work with. ‘failing to advance’ does not make them ‘bad’ people - but it is a viable reason to not continue a career past a certain point. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/51 "2013-02-17T12:54:36Z")
> [@simster](#): > > ‘failing to advance’ does not make them ‘bad’ people - but it is a viable reason to not continue a career past a certain point. I refused promotion to Sgt for personal reasons, but would not have been forced out. All that would have happened is that they wouldn’t have recruited another person as long as I filled the slot. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/52 "2013-02-17T13:16:12Z")
In my experience, failing to advance was not a personal choice. It meant: [ul] [li]not recommended for advancement (due to professional performance or disciplinary issues)[/li][li]failed advancement exam[/li][li]passed exam but score fell short of cutoff for advancement[/li][/ul] In all three cases, assuming the lack of recommendation was not a personal vendetta, the individual was not the best available for a promotion. Ideally, only the most qualified are advanced - you can be the kindest, hardest working, most dedicated individual ever seen, but if you can’t meet the criteria for advancement and the powers that be deem that failure to advance for X years or Y evaluation cycles mean you’re gone, then you’re gone. Such is life… One of the stupidest reasons to keep a person on in any job is “But he/she’s been here for _years_!!!” ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/53 "2013-02-17T13:22:43Z")
Gah! Every time I see this thread title on the MPSIMS main page, the tune to “50 Ways to Leave Your Lover” intrudes on my mind thusly: _It was the…pension-seeking SEAL who shot Bin-Laden…_ ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003/54 "2013-02-17T13:52:14Z")
> [@flyboy](#): > > Times are changing, and the forces are downsizing. Our budgets are already taking huge cuts. I know plenty of people-Officers and Enlisted-that have been forced out for failing to advance. All were good people, not shitbags. > > In any case, I wouldn’t want a system that guaranteed you a pension the second you sign up. I can’t imagine how many total shitbags I’d be forced to work with. The Army approached downsizing differently this time. They went after people with discipline problems in the past. Even the long past. So a DWI with article 15 ten years ago could come back and bite you in the ass. It has really become zero defect especially in full job tracks. But it is still possible to stay in till retirement for most. It just takes more effort if you are in an unlucky MOS. You may have to change jobs. But make it to E7 or O4 and you are safe for 20. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seal-that-shot-bin-laden-complaining-about-no-pension/650003.md?page=2)