# Sealioning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837 "2019-10-16T10:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/181 "2019-10-19T00:03:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then my understanding of sealioning differs from yours. What happened to Quinn was straight harassment – sealioning is more subtle, as I understand it. …no, that was classic sealioning. It can be subtle, but it doesn’t have to be and trust me: goobergaters **are not subtle**. Sealioning \*\*is \*\*straight harassment. It was a tactic used to harass women and marginalised people who spoke out against goobergate. The term appears to be adopting new usage and I have no objections to that, but I personally won’t be able to seperate the term from its origins. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/182 "2019-10-19T00:32:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But you haven’t explained why you won’t wear red. You claim that you have nothing against red, but your shirts and ties are all blue, those aren’t the actions of someone who doesn’t have anything against red. None of these are questions, thus I don’t need to respond. > [@](#): > > The whole point of it is to exhaust the other person into giving up or conceding out of frustration. I actually have shit to do, and want to spend what time I spend here constructively, so you are absolutely right that you could probably answer questions longer than I care to ask, however if you have plenty of free time, and you desire to use that time to disrupt, rather than participate in a conversation, then you can ask questions for far longer than anyone would care to answer them I don’t consider asking someone to define what they are posting and why they are posting it as a disruption. It seems to me that only people who don’t want to actually explain their opinion on a topic would consider it disruptive, since it generally looks to me that they only want people to agree with them without any thought involved. > [@](#): > > No, I have defined my use of the word “treason” by using it in the context of betraying the Kurds. You do not need to accept my definition of treason for your use, but you should accept that I am using it in that way That’s fair. That makes rebuttals simple - “I don’t agree with you that betraying the Kurds is treason.” My guess is at that point, a poster would say “Of course it’s treason you Trump lover!” because now it seems like we are moving more toward a “Just agree with me or else I will call you a sealioning troll!” type of subject. > [@](#): > > Tell me, which response is more conducive to a productive conversation? > > Me: Betraying the Kurds is treason. > > Normal poster I’d agree with: I don’t know if I would use the word treason to describe the actions, but we really did let them down, > > Normal poster I’d disagree with: We didn’t really betray them, they knew it was coming eventually, and they had been using our presence as a shield from which to commit terrorist attacks. > Sealion: How is that “TREASON”? Treason is defined as “Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason”, so how does legally changing our military priorities meet the legal definition of “TREASON”? A more productive conversation would be You: We shouldn’t betray the Kurds because of such and such reasons. Me: I agree, or, I disagree. But it seems to me that people like to use the worst possible words to describe something they think is bad, and when called on it, get defensive and now start saying “sealioning!” See the “Concentration camp” thread for an example. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/183 "2019-10-19T01:06:59Z")
Worst. Possible. President. In. Office. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/184 "2019-10-19T01:09:57Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Worst. Possible. President. In. Office. Is this supposed to be in one of the 3737383 threads that are actually about Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/185 "2019-10-19T01:14:37Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …no, that was classic sealioning. It can be subtle, but it doesn’t have to be and trust me: goobergaters **are not subtle**. Sealioning \*\*is \*\*straight harassment. It was a tactic used to harass women and marginalised people who spoke out against goobergate. The term appears to be adopting new usage and I have no objections to that, but I personally won’t be able to seperate the term from its origins. Straight harassment was done by the Gamergaters, the standard defense tacticof that harassment is where Sealioning was employed the most. I’m sure we can remember: “Can you prove you were harassed?” “Do you really think that’s proof of harassment? I got a mean tweet once and it didn’t bother me.” “Can you really call that ‘threatening’? After all it is just a tweet, they can’t actually touch you to rape you, so what’s the problem?” “Just because they posted your address online doesn’t mean you’re being harassed. They used to put people’s address in the phone books!” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/186 "2019-10-19T01:20:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Is this supposed to be in one of the 3737383 threads that are actually about Trump? Prime example of sealioning right here! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/187 "2019-10-19T01:21:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You do not need to accept my definition of treason for your use, but you should accept that I am using it in that way. That’s what **Humpty Dumpty** said. ---
**Author:** ![neofishboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/neofishboy/32/444_2.png) [@neofishboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neofishboy)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/188 "2019-10-19T01:46:26Z")
Please quote where Humpty Dumpty said that exact thing or admit that you lied. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/189 "2019-10-19T02:21:06Z")
> [@neofishboy](#): > > Please quote where Humpty Dumpty said that exact thing or admit that you lied. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/190 "2019-10-19T05:32:31Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I am a _liberal_ in almost every respect. I’m just not a “woke” identity politics progressive. But you woke types can’t handle nuance very well (not that right wingers can either), so it’s easier to simply label me as a conservative and not have to think. I’m going to drop the caustic sarcasm for just you, just this once because maybe this might shake your shit more but… on these particular issues you’re not at “+35”. And you’re committing the exact sin you think we’re guilty of. You call me woke (well, I assume I was included in the “you woke types”) but woke is the last thing I’d describe myself as. I know fuck all about feminist theory or gender theory. Trans people kind of gently wig me out (though by all means, if it floats their boat etc… and I see no reason whatsoever to be a dick about it - I just can’t relate very much). I’m a straight white male with neither tattoos nor blue hair nor hair knot. I’m not on the twitters or the facebooks. In fact, my only connection to woke people is via ultra _anti_feminists whose videos I watch for the sheer entertainment of watching them own themselves - it turns out that when you watch a lot of video game related content on YouTube, the algos determine you might also like insufferable, unfuckable troglodytes explaining at length how cultural marxists are implementing a jewish agenda to put women in hollywood movies which will destroy western civilization. It’s hilarious (although less when you stop to think about it) But here’s the thing : your first go to example of “bad people on the twitters” was a badly constructed strawman caricature of women (I’m sorry, black women… because that matters I assume ? Am I supposed to know how \*those \*people are ?) badmouthing all white men which… well, I won’t say has never happened in the history of the world but I can’t say I’ve ever encountered, ever, in any shape or form. And the existence of unfounded criticism of All White Men on twitter certainly doesn’t bother me, inasmuch as I don’t go looking for it. It certainly doesn’t exist on this forum (maybe in MPSIMS ? I don’t go there much, is that where I’d find a nest… hive… cell… vaginal powwow of catty feminists ?), yet you seem convinced accusations of sealioning comes from those spheres. You described a woman saying “I could do without sealions” as, and I quote “catty and nasty”, for chrissakes. And I think the fact that a number of people in this thread, myself included, have mocked you as a regressive troglodyte when it comes to the whole “feminazis persecuting white men” thing while none whatsoever has expressed support should tell you something - this board might skew left (or at least, skew Democratic, which isn’t quite the same thing, and yet more removed from any form or radicalism whatsoever) but not \*that \*left. Sooooo yeah, no, really, you’re not in the middle on this. You’re not being a moderate. You’re using the exact same language as alt-right crazies and gamergaters to rail against one of their favourite strawmen. Trust me on this. I’ve watched and read (and laughed at) a LOT of toxic antifeminist garbage. I can provide entirely too many links if need be, although I won’t because I’d hate to give them a cent in youtube ad money. If you indeed mislike those people, as you purport to, that should give you at least a little bit of pause. Maybe the call is coming from inside the house, you feel me ? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/191 "2019-10-19T07:28:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > the sea lion in the cartoon is not “distracting and trolling”. He’s objecting politely to his kind being disparaged, and asking the woman to justify having done so. That’s literally all he is doing. Err, no. He’s also stalking, home invading and butting into conversations uninvited. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/192 "2019-10-19T08:46:30Z")
You guys get back to me when you have decided whether he is home invading or not and what that metaphorically represents online. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think threads like this (a them in which he’s repeatedly come back to) demonstrate his lack of interest in actual debate and exchange of ideas with those he disagrees with: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=860772](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=860772) > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=831416](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=831416) > > Also this: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=864198](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=864198) > > and: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=840554](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=840554) > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=842802](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=842802) > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=846754](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=846754) > > These are not honest attempts to engage. These are disguised trolling threads. Andy, you said upthread that the fact that I said I needed examples before I could get more specific than that gave you all the answer you need. But that is undermined by this subsequent post where you did give examples. Maybe you weren’t offering them for me, but I looked at them—and I would agree that they are trollish. You know what else I noticed about them? I have never seen any of them before in my life. As I have said many times, I don’t lurk in threads I don’t post in. So check for yourself. I was not present to witness any of that. I would be surprised, actually, if I have ever read _any_ thread started by HD. I post my share of individual _posts_ on this board, but not in all that many _threads_, especially if you don’t count movie and TV threads in Café Society. I just don’t spread myself around the board like a lot of posters do. And I don’t browse subject boards either. I use notifications to go back to the ones I’m already in, and occasionally over the past few months I find new ones like this one because they are publicized on the Giraffe boards. But even there it had nothing to do with HD, with whom I really am not that familiar. It was because the subject line talked about this stupid concept of sealioning, which is a personal pet peeve. So I did in fact need examples to know what you were talking about with HD, and now I definitely do see what you mean. OK? ETA: I have clearly been living a charmed life to miss all his nonsense, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/193 "2019-10-19T11:10:24Z")
Just so I’m clear, you’re now saying that sealioning, at least how it’s been defined here nicely by **Ravenman** and **Bone** , is a thing and **HD** for one engages in it? Because if so, that would be two admissions of error in one thread, and I should get some kind of award for starting it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/194 "2019-10-19T11:50:01Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You guys get back to me when you have decided whether he is home invading or not You seriously think he _isn’t_? But can we be clear that politely asking questions is not “all he’s doing”? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/195 "2019-10-19T12:26:54Z")
He is home invading, which is what makes the situation complicated, because contrary to what the creator and some in this thread contend, being a sealion is an immutable characteristic and so the panel cannot be completely free of the insinuation that the initial speaker was prejudiced against sealions. To me, the most relevant parallel to online humans I can construct would be if a Stormfronter said “i just don’t like black people” and a black person saw that followed them around and even onto their web site demanding a conversation. And then when that didn’t happen they doxxed the Stormfronter, at which point the bigot says to his fellow bigots “see, told you. Black people.” Doxxing isn’t the right thing to do, but then again, neither is being a bigot and it doesn’t prove that all black people are angry doxxers. I don’t know if there was a specific Gamergate comment that sparked this comic, but if there is, then it depends on the specific words used. If they said “wow, those Gamergaters are really something aren’t they” then the sealioning is an indefensible reaction to a run of the mill comment; on the other hand if they said “wow, gamers are really a piece of work aren’t they?” then it’s an indefensible reaction to an indefensible comment, because “gamer” is a mutable but irrelevant characteristic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/196 "2019-10-19T13:09:34Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > He is home invading, which is what makes the situation complicated, because contrary to what the creator and some in this thread contend, being a sealion is an immutable characteristic and so the panel cannot be completely free of the insinuation that the initial speaker was prejudiced against sealions. Not prejudiced. Just judiced. Since in that world, sealions clearly \*are \*dicks. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/197 "2019-10-19T13:15:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not prejudiced. Just judiced. Since in that world, sealions clearly \*are \*dicks. It might be one out of a thousand sea lions that act like that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/198 "2019-10-19T13:46:13Z")
#NotAllSeaLions ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/199 "2019-10-19T13:57:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You guys get back to me when you have decided whether he is home invading or not and what that metaphorically represents online. :rolleyes: The author of the original comic [clarified quite specifically what he meant the sealion’s behavior to metaphorically represent](http://wondermark.com/2014-errata/): > [@](#): > > The sea lion character is not meant to represent actual sea lions, or any actual animal. It is meant as a metaphorical stand-in for human beings that display certain behaviors. Since behaviors are the result of choice, I would assert that the woman’s objection to sea lions — which, if the metaphor is understood, is read as actually an objection to human beings who exhibit certain behaviors — is not analogous to a prejudice based on race, species, or other immutable characteristics. So no, the sealion in the comic is not an innocent victim of gratuitous abuse who is politely seeking an explanation of the abuse. The sealion character is a pestering asshole created specifically for the purpose of mocking the behavior of pestering assholes. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/200 "2019-10-19T14:29:48Z")
When everyone is using a term and understanding each other, but your definition does not align with that understanding, the parsimonious explanation is that you are the one who is wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837.md?page=11)