# Sealioning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837 "2019-10-16T10:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/121 "2019-10-17T23:14:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Because insulting someone and being hostile like your example is relatively clear cut. Asking for proof when someone is accused of treason, which is a capital crime, seems like it’s actually relevant to a thread talking about impeachment. Too often words like treason are used with absolutely no justification merely to shape a narrative or score political points. I actually have more of a problem with people who dishonestly call others treasonous, or nazis, or whatever or use the deliberately inflammatory word of the day than I do with those who want those words used narrowly and properly. But if I say that betraying the Kurds is treason, then focusing on my use of treason, and making me justify it by legal definition is simply a distraction. You are not asking for evidence of treason, you are demanding that I justify my use of the word. If I call someone a Nazi because the support fascist policies, then getting into the semantics of why they are not really the same as the Germans of 1945 is also just a distraction. That is often the case here, is that someone uses a word in a colloquial fashion, rather than a legal one, and it is demanded to know, with only the limited knowledge available to those of us posting on a messageboard, how the actions rise to the level that is satisfied by the law. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/122 "2019-10-17T23:22:25Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I don’t see Hurricane’s behaviour as sealioning. > [@Ravenman](#): > > All kidding aside, on this board the key things to pay attention to are: > > 1. Overuse of asking for cites, > 2. Fixation on the use of a particular word, such as asking for precise definitions and then quibbling with them, > 3. If someone provides ten points in favor of an idea or whatever, proceeding to nitpick the hell out of one in order to “disprove” the other nine, > 4. Altering the basics of the debate or moving the goalposts of a standard of proof, forcing others to essentially go back to square one, > 5. An extreme focus on the process of a debate, rather than the main point (e.g., if someone says the sky is blue, the troll/sealioner will focus discussion individually/serially on the words, meaning, and standard of proof for “sky,” “is,” and “blue” rather than coming out with a competing argument that the sky is a different color. 1. He repeatedly asks for cites, which he ignores and asks again later. 2. He fixates on literal meanings of words & phrases. 3. He picks out what he evidently sees as the weakest opposing point and argues against that as if it disproves all other points. 4. He disrupts threads by dragging in something which, at first, seems relevant but is ultimately proven to be inconsequential (e.g., [his weaksauce F-35 crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21919659&postcount=1301)). ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/123 "2019-10-17T23:23:52Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > It’s used for various reasons and in various circumstances. However, a very common one is when the so-called “sea lion“ has put the person they are politely questioning in an awkward position, and that person would rather not have to actually justify their stance because they really can’t, other than “this is what we woke people have collectively agreed to insist is the truth, without need of logic or evidence; and by asking that some be provided, you are demonstrating yourself to be right wing scum and beneath my contempt”. :dubious: People who are “woke” aren’t ashamed of their world view. Underneath, in the deepest recesses, it seems to me that they want better outcomes on some issues. It is funny to see you try to make a skit out of an imagined woke troll. If people are dog whistling I get what your example is saying. They will be cagy about their actual motive to post. Your example sounds like a conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/124 "2019-10-18T00:20:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, what do you have against red? I don’t understand why you don’t prefer red to blue, as obviously, red is a far superior color. Could you explain your reasoning in choosing blue over red, please? I’m just trying to have a reasonable civil conversation about why you seem to have something against red. I don’t have anything against red. I explained already that I just get blue shirts and ties so I can mix and match them without much thought. I appreciate your opinion of the color red, thanks for sharing! See? Doesn’t work on me. I bet I can answer questions for a lot longer than you care to ask them 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/125 "2019-10-18T00:30:34Z")
When you have a good position you don’t sealion or need to. In fact I think it might not even be possible to sealion from a good argument. Conservatives, your positions have been bad. Look around you, here, your room, the world, anywhere. You are the only current suspects in this case. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/126 "2019-10-18T00:32:54Z")
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that “sealioning” is a really fucking gay term, it seems to be really craving to be accepted into the vernacular but it’s fucking retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/127 "2019-10-18T00:36:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But if I say that betraying the Kurds is treason, then focusing on my use of treason, and making me justify it by legal definition is simply a distraction. You are not asking for evidence of treason, you are demanding that I justify my use of the word. But how else would someone know why you consider betraying the Kurds “treason” without asking you what you consider “treason” is and why you think betraying the Kurds rises to that definition? Should people just accept that it is treason because you say so? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/128 "2019-10-18T00:44:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But if I say that betraying the Kurds is treason, then focusing on my use of treason, and making me justify it by legal definition is simply a distraction. You are not asking for evidence of treason, you are demanding that I justify my use of the word. > > If I call someone a Nazi because the support fascist policies, then getting into the semantics of why they are not really the same as the Germans of 1945 is also just a distraction. > That is often the case here, is that someone uses a word in a colloquial fashion, rather than a legal one, and it is demanded to know, with only the limited knowledge available to those of us posting on a messageboard, how the actions rise to the level that is satisfied by the law. Using it informally you’d have a point. But the words aren’t being used informally. The words are used to support removal from office. Furthermore, when words like Nazi are directed at posters here they are used as inflammatory and dishonest slurs. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/129 "2019-10-18T00:59:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t have anything against red. I explained already that I just get blue shirts and ties so I can mix and match them without much thought. I appreciate your opinion of the color red, thanks for sharing! > > See? Doesn’t work on me. I bet I can answer questions for a lot longer than you care to ask them 🙂 In discussions where you don’t give a shit about the content, sealions aren’t particularly irritating. Imagine if someone was doing this to you when you were talking about something you actually cared about, though. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/130 "2019-10-18T01:03:29Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > When you have a good position you don’t sealion or need to. In fact I think it might not even be possible to sealion from a good argument. > > Conservatives, your positions have been bad. Look around you, here, your room, the world, anywhere. > > You are the only current suspects in this case. Any cites of those imaginary straw man conservatives) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/131 "2019-10-18T01:09:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In discussions where you don’t give a shit about the content, sealions aren’t particularly irritating. Imagine if someone was doing this to you when you were talking about something you actually cared about, though. I would do the same thing. I own my opinions and can explain them for as long as someone is interested in them for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/132 "2019-10-18T01:11:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Any cites of those imaginary straw man conservatives) Marriage should only be between a man and a woman is pretty bad. I cite the GOP party platform. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/133 "2019-10-18T01:26:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Any cites of those imaginary straw man conservatives) OK. Narrow it down to a single topic or sector and I’ll tell you what the bad conservative postion is, one that would need to sealion to compete in a real argument. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/134 "2019-10-18T03:37:23Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > People who are “woke” aren’t ashamed of their world view. Underneath, in the deepest recesses, it seems to me that they want better outcomes on some issues. It is funny to see you try to make a skit out of an imagined woke troll. > > If people are dog whistling I get what your example is saying. They will be cagy about their actual motive to post. Your example sounds like a conservative. Like always, the enemies of the reactionary possess all characteristics at once. SJWs and assorted woke people are at the same time argumentative, overly vocal and shouting down [del]assholes[/del]persecuted cis white men, but at the same time devious and reluctant to identify themselves or explain their worldview at any length. Crafty buggers. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/135 "2019-10-18T03:46:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think your obsession with the meaning of treason is nothing more than trying to silence people you disagree with. You don’t think that. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/136 "2019-10-18T03:47:55Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Marriage should only be between a man and a woman is pretty bad. I cite the GOP party platform. Define man or woman. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/137 "2019-10-18T03:53:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Define man or woman. What’s the GOP’s definition? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/138 "2019-10-18T04:07:18Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > What’s the GOP’s definition? I don’t know anymore. I don’t even know what is is. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/139 "2019-10-18T04:17:16Z")
I have a 5th grade science class and one of the kids spends the entire 40 minutes thinking of question after question after question. The problem is that he doesn’t think about the answers or ask actual followup questions. He’s obviously not that interested in learning more, he just likes to waste time. Since I’m the “mod” of that class, then it was easy enough to fix. He gets one question per day. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837/140 "2019-10-18T04:29:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t know anymore. I don’t even know what is is. So you’re saying you are out of touch/ill informed of your party’s stance? If so, I applaud your self realization, and perhaps i might see hope for your and America’s future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sealioning/841837.md?page=8)