Buddhism today is either a debased folk religion (= worthless) or, as implemented in the West, a faux fashion religion for people with too much time on their hands. It had some great insights in its day, but spirituality has moved on.
No, I don’t take the Richard Geres and John Astins seriously when they say they’re “Buddhist.”
The hundreds of devout Buddhists I have met in the states and abroad, whether Asian, white, or black–most of whom have shown themselves to be both mature and wise–would disagree rather strongly with your stunning display of ignorance, Aeschines. This is truly beneath you.
I’ve played softball against Sean’s brother the past few years and have talked to him on occasion (we’ve had mutual teammates–platonically speaking, of course). Strikes me as nice guy, not, ahem, bat-shit crazy, AFAICS, perhaps a little more obsessed with softball than your average Joe. He’s brought out Sean to play a few times. I saw no episodes that may be linked to Vegetarian Buddhism, never saw him denounce a cowhide glove nor detach from it for that matter, except maybe between innings. 
Vegetarianism is pretty mainstream these days, and is certainly nutritionally defensible.
Gosh. “Spirituality has moved on.” That’s a sweeping statement if I ever heard one. It seems pretty arrogant to dismiss a religion with over 30 million adherents worldwide as passe’. Have you anything other than your opinion to support these assertions?
That’s pretty rich, coming from a self-described New Ager who complains about all the skeptics around here.
:dubious:
Buddhism is less of a religion and more of a philosophy.
Is that really it? If so, you’ve led me to an epiphany about my mother. I thought she was just gifted in pushing the buttons of everyone she knows.
Sean might be perfectly normal. Some of us grow up with not one, but two mentally ill parents, and don’t inherit their illnesses. You learn to cope. Sean seems to have, too.
I lived in Japan for 8 years and never met a single person who would consider him/herself a serious adherent of the religion. That includes actual Buddhist priests–who all of course eat meat, get married, etc., these days.
Hardly. You’ll need to return to my original statement: Buddhism is now, throughout the world, basically a folk religion with extremely few serious adherents; and I mistrust those adherents in the West, just as I would mistrust adherents of Mithraism (i.e., reviving a dead religion).
Oh, so because you never met a devout Buddhist, they don’t exist?
Because not everyone is an orthodox Buddhist, the whole religion’s a sham?
Not enough :rolleyes: 's in the world.
Yeah, it’s mainstream faux bullshit.
My assertion is an opinion. An educated opinion. Around the world, Buddhism is practiced mainly as a folk religion. Put some gold foil on the statue. Clap clap. Make a wish.
I’m opposed to dogmas of all types, theistic or atheistic.
No, it’s a religion.
Sure, apparently there are some left in Tibet. Some pretenders in the West. Whatever.
I’ve never heard the term “orthodox” applied to Buddhism before. Doesn’t really make sense.
There are enough.
They didn’t consider themselves serious Buddhists, or you didn’t think they met your arbitrary standard of seriousness?
I’ve met plenty of serious Buddhists in the Eastern U.S. If you couldn’t find any in Japan, I suspect you weren’t looking hard enough.
And I guess Judaism is a “folk religion” too (whatever that means), since not all Jews keep kosher. :rolleyes:
The point is that just because someone doesn’t follow all of the traditional rules of their religion, it doesn’t mean they aren’t a serious practitioner of that religion. I’ve met plenty of Reform Jews who were devout in their beliefs.
Not to mention Protestants.
Just a little tip from the Linster to you, Aeschines:
The next time you go about slagging an entire religion consisting of tens of millions of followers, you might want to make sure that you knew what you’re talking about.
First of all, the only people who would even call themselves Buddhists would have been the priests. I bet had I asked the priests whether they considered themselves truly to be following the eight-fold path, most of them would have said “no.” The role Buddism plays in Japanese society is funeral parlor, daycare center, property manager, etc.
Go to Kyoto and visit the temples–they’ll charge you 300 yen and give you a pamphlet. People imagine because the almanac lists so many Japanese as Shinto or Buddhist that people in such proportions believe as Christians do in the US. They don’t–not at all. There are some Christians, however, that take their religion seriously.
You’re right. It’s the kind of thing that’s there if you’re into it, completely absent if you’re not. But it’s not a sigificant part of Japanese culture at all. In contrast, anime, manga, and porn are in your face whether you’re interested or not.
To some people, yeah, it’s just a way of participating in a community. For a lot of Christians, that’s the case too. (What, your average Episcopalian is going to get into the “living word” and change the world? Gimme a break!) Buddhism sure ain’t even close to being at that level in Japan. It’s pretty much just for funerals (with Shinto being for weddings).
Bullshit, my friend. Mahayana Buddhists (the “serious” ones) would have a BIG problem with Theraveda being called the orthodox sect. It’s to laugh.
I went through a Buddhist phase myself–when I was 12.
I see his daughters are named Alexandra, Elizabeth and Isabella. I thought he was supposed to be a celebrity?
I find this piece of trivia (from IMDb) fascinating: Calls four people “Dad”: John Astin, Desi Arnaz Jr., Mike Tell and Mike Pearce (his step-father). Looks like he really tried to make the most of a rather messy family situation. Good for him!
I like Sean Astin. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, a good family man and a very down-to-earth person. His family may be unconventional and his mother may have battled her demons but it looks like she got something right.
They say she’s difficult, they say she’s drunk, even when she’s not. Sure, she takes dolls, 'cause she’s gotta get up at five o’clock in the morning and ‘Sparkle, Patty, sparkle!’ That psychiatrist says that she’s self destructive. So what? What does she do about it? Well, the hell with all of 'em. Even the bad publicity helps when you get to be as big as she is!
No doubt. I guess I’ll have to get into the problem in detail.
Here’s my argument in brief. You have the folk-religion-style Buddhism, which comprises the vast majority of practitioners. For example, Westerners most likely aren’t going to get into Thai Buddhism–it really is just pin-the-foil-on-the-Buddha-type bullshit.
So where is your “serious” Buddhism going to come from? There is some serious Tibetan Buddhism; I recognize that. But then there is a lot of crap not based on tradition. For example, that idiot Philip Kapleau (the guy who wrote Three Pillars of Zen; the guy really is a total ignorant jackass) didn’t even follow a traditional Zen sect but something some Japanese dude came up with in the 1950s. But he was considered a major authority for the longest time out East.
People are always talking Zen this, Zen that. Bullshit! Zen is stone cold dead in Japan, its country of origin. Anyone who teaches Zen in the West who doesn’t first start out recognizing that fact and telling his/her students is a misinformer and probably an outright fraud. If you want to revive Zen by reviving it in the West, fine, but that’s what you’ll be doing.
I’ve personally found self-styled Western Buddhists to be supercilious pains-in-the-ass. With a faux, know-it-all “satori” thing going on. Designer religions are the ultimate bullshit.
No kidding, I wasn’t saying that they were right to regard themselves as such, I’m saying that Buddhism has people who consider themselves orthodox or observant, just like any other religion.
So what?