# Sean Penn brings personal photog on rescue mission
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 5, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193 "2005-09-05T13:16:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/141 "2005-09-06T15:46:02Z")
> [@Stephe96](#):
>
> Sean Penn: “My God, I’ve got to go help those people! But first, lemme call Jann Wenner. I see this as a cover!”
You don’t even wait for an answer before you start with that shit? It’d be bearable if you were clever or funny…
---
### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/142 "2005-09-06T15:52:50Z")
> [@Merijeek](#):
>
> Never said he didn’t help anyone.
>
> I said he could have done a better job if he wasn’t more interested in good publicity for Sean.
>
> Unless, of course, Penn can’t work a camera.
>
> -Joe
Well, by all means, let’s let him row the boat, plug the leak, film, navigate, and anything else, so it doesn’t appear to YOU to be a photo op. He is anything BUT a publicity hound. If he wants to bring attention to the pathetic response the government made to the disaster, I’d say it’s not only helping ALL of us down the road, but also requires more than a one-man show. If you don’t like the guy, fine…but dissing him for trying to help is just lame.
---
### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/143 "2005-09-06T15:53:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> What a stupid fucking post. If he helped anybody ever, then what’s the fucking problem? Even if he had been there again today, you would have only attacked him for it.
>
> Jesus FUCK, why can’t a guy try to do a good thing (even it is a little ineptly executed) without getting stoned for it?
Look, I’m glad Sean went to help. I imagine he has the means to be able to take more than one afternoon off work to aid the rescue operation. If the guy is deeply concerned about rescuing people, I’m sure he’s still there, helping. I don’t think everybody is yet rescued, his help will contribute to getting people rescued.
If he was only there for a photo-op “rescue” as a 15 minute of fame stunt, with flak jacket and entourage, then “media whore” comes to mind.
Still, I’m not “attacking” him, yesterday or today. He did, by all accounts, actually bring some people to shore. If that was all the rescue he had in him, that’s fine.
---
### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/144 "2005-09-06T15:57:47Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#):
>
> The photographer was in the boat, along with other people. It’s not so much the fact that a photographer was along as that he was taking the place of a potential rescuee, as were the others in the boat. If Penn is there as a journalist he really has no business inserting himself into the story. If he decided to abandon his role as a journalist, what did he need the photographer for?
>
> I know people who are search and rescue first responders, who are EMT’s, who are ER nurses. it is generally understood that the civilians need to let the professionals handle the situation. Nothing has been cited to show that Penn did anything that would not have been handled by the pros. In the absence of that, the presumption is that he was in the way.
Maybe his primary purpose wasn’t to rescue people, but he’d be able to if the opportunity presented itself. He’s got as much right to be there as any MSNBC, CNN or AP reporter. Someone is making an effort to help. Anyone who would read anything more into the gesture is looking for an argument.
---
### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/145 "2005-09-06T15:58:27Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> I’ve seen no indication that anyone thought he was in the way. Even if he was (which I do not acknowledge), it still does not make him a bad person for trying to help.
I’m not saying he is a bad person. I am saying that the default assumption about a civilian who takes matters like these into his own hands is that he is in the way. We really have no way of knowing either way. We also don’t know if any other private cictizens did exactly what he did. He is a public figure who knows that his presence will be recorded. It is kind of hard for me not to get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that his attitude is along the lines of “You dummies step aside and let me get some work done”. That, coupled with the sinking boat, the red cup, and the designer life vest makes him look trather stupid.
Thousands of people have volunteered to go to the disaster zone and help. They notify the Red Cross, go through training, commit to a period of service, and are assigned where they are needed. In most cases, it is in evac centers where they live, sleep and eat along with the evacuees, under the same conditions. That is the reality of the situation, and against that the image of a movie star bailing out a boat that is full of non-essential personnel is fairly ridicilous. Hence the ridicule.
---
### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/146 "2005-09-06T16:05:38Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> Maybe his primary purpose wasn’t to rescue people, but he’d be able to if the opportunity presented itself. He’s got as much right to be there as any MSNBC, CNN or AP reporter. Someone is making an effort to help. Anyone who would read anything more into the gesture is looking for an argument.
How many reporters show up in their own boats with a pocketful of cash to hand out? If he is a reporter he needs to report. If he is not, he needs to volunteer through channels like everyone else. It is arrogant of him to assume that he knows better than trained rescue personnel, just as it is arrogant of you to assume that any reading of the situation other than yours is “looking for an argument.”
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/147 "2005-09-06T16:06:31Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#):
>
> Look, I’m glad Sean went to help. I imagine he has the means to be able to take more than one afternoon off work to aid the rescue operation. If the guy is deeply concerned about rescuing people, I’m sure he’s still there, helping. I don’t think everybody is yet rescued, his help will contribute to getting people rescued.
>
> If he was only there for a photo-op “rescue” as a 15 minute of fame stunt, with flak jacket and entourage, then “media whore” comes to mind.
>
> Still, I’m not “attacking” him, yesterday or today. He did, by all accounts, actually bring some people to shore. If that was all the rescue he had in him, that’s fine.
What makes you think he would have been ALLOWED to come back today?
If he did bring some people to shore, then he did more than I did yesterday and he did more than he was required to. I don’t think we can make snide remarks about what he “has in him” if we don’t know that he would have been allowed to return even if he’d wanted to.
---
### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/148 "2005-09-06T16:07:30Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> Why couldn’t he have been there to do both?
Try to keep up with your own reasoning.
The Big Mean Magazine made him take along a photographer on his assignment. Sean didn’t have a choice, apparently.
Assuming he’s a reporter for a magazine. Which means it wasn’t his idea to go and be helpful, it was his magazine’s idea to have him go and do some rescuin’.
Or, he went in independently, had complete control over his entourage, and decided to bring a photographer for his own ego strokage.
Of course, you never answered my question as I knew you wouldn’t.
-Joe, expecting further evasion
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/149 "2005-09-06T16:08:10Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#):
>
> How many reporters show up in their own boats with a pocketful of cash to hand out?"
How many reporters are multi-millionaires?
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/150 "2005-09-06T16:08:52Z")
As far as “moving the goalposts,” **Merijeek** , lemme sum up:
> [@newcrasher](#):
>
> But why did you bring a personal photographer? What incredible vanity.
> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> he’s been hired to write an article for a magazine. […] Sounded reasonable to me and it would seem the photographer is there for article photos.
Gee, that answers the vanity and “why is he there?” accusations. Sure, he looked like a dope in his boat, but it seems he might’ve done a little good and he had a reason to be there. Ho hum.
But wait, what’s that in the distance? It’s someone who’s already jizzed his pants and now needs to re-justify the shit he’s saying! So…
> [@Stephe96](#):
>
> Wait a minute. Did Sean Penn decide he wanted to help people…or was he assigned to do so by a magazine?
> [@Stephe96](#):
>
> I see this as a cover!
And THAT is how you fucking move goalposts.
The journalists who are down there, in my opinion, ALSO need to do whatever good they are able. They are coming down with supplies for themselves, at least, and need to make sure they are not a drain on the already stretched resources. If they can bring extra materials to help people, that’s even better - it’s a net gain. Penn is rich and he can afford to give out cash that way.
---
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/151 "2005-09-06T16:11:53Z")
> [@Merijeek](#):
>
> Try to keep up with your own reasoning.
>
> The Big Mean Magazine made him take along a photographer on his assignment. Sean didn’t have a choice, apparently.
>
> Assuming he’s a reporter for a magazine. Which means it wasn’t his idea to go and be helpful, it was his magazine’s idea to have him go and do some rescuin’.
>
> Or, he went in independently, had complete control over his entourage, and decided to bring a photographer for his own ego strokage.
>
> Of course, you never answered my question as I knew you wouldn’t.
>
> -Joe, expecting further evasion
You’re connecting unrelated dots.
If the photog was sent by the magazine, that does not mean that Penn, on his own, could not have decided to help some people once he was at the site. One has nothing to do with the other.
---
### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/152 "2005-09-06T16:13:35Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> How many reporters are multi-millionaires?
That’s really the point. Sean Penn as a reporter for Rolling Stone is a reporter in name only. It is pretty much an axiom of journalism for the reporter to be objective and at a distance from the story; that he came down with a bundle of money to hand out to the victims puts the lie to his media credentials altogether.
---
### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/153 "2005-09-06T16:17:40Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#):
>
> What makes you think he would have been ALLOWED to come back today?
>
> If he did bring some people to shore, then he did more than I did yesterday and he did more than he was required to. I don’t think we can make snide remarks about what he “has in him” if we don’t know that he would have been allowed to return even if he’d wanted to.
It would have made headlines. “Sean Penn denied opportunity to aid rescue! Bush to blame!”
---
### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/154 "2005-09-06T16:18:36Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#):
>
> How many reporters show up in their own boats with a pocketful of cash to hand out? If he is a reporter he needs to report. If he is not, he needs to volunteer through channels like everyone else. It is arrogant of him to assume that he knows better than trained rescue personnel, just as it is arrogant of you to assume that any reading of the situation other than yours is “looking for an argument.”
In this particular instance, it’s not only NOT arrogant, but it’s downright APPARENT that the “professionals” need all the help they can get. There are thousands of regular citizens down there helping in any way they can; in boats, from the trunks of their cars, with anything they can do. He’s a wealthy man and is giving money to victims of the disaster? Well fuck him, huh? The nerve of him to give people whatever he can to ease their immediate suffering. That bastard.
---
### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/155 "2005-09-06T16:20:59Z")
Well, I’m done.
Any more arguing in here might as well just be for the sake of inflating post counts.
I suggest, however, that the next time **DtC** gets annoyed by people who will ignore anything that doesn’t fit their view (say, on the GOP or Bush) he reviews his responses in this thread.
Seriously, **DtC** , the next time you’re frustrated by someone like **duffer** and his inability to parse anything besides his own predefined thoughts you should reread your responses here. Maybe you’ll develop some understanding for the SDMB’s narrowest mind.
Meantime, I’ll wait for the Rolling Stone article to come out. I’m sure the photos will be worth it.
-Joe
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/156 "2005-09-06T16:25:18Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#):
>
> That’s really the point. Sean Penn as a reporter for Rolling Stone is a reporter in name only. It is pretty much an axiom of journalism for the reporter to be objective and at a distance from the story; that he came down with a bundle of money to hand out to the victims puts the lie to his media credentials altogether.
You’re slightly overstating the case, but you’re not totally wrong. Part of the appeal of the article (I’m saying that in the abstract) is that it’s Sean Penn doing the writing. But I don’t think this is relevant. We don’t know how this story came to be. Maybe Penn said “I’m going down there,” and RS asked him if he’d like to make a story of it. Maybe it was all his idea, maybe it was all theirs. There are a number of different permutations. While Penn’s degree of selflessness, if any, would be affected depending on which one really happened, I wouldn’t say categorically that any of them make him a bad or vain person.
Penn is not down there to do hard news reporting, as he is not qualified for that. He is there to offer his perceptions and observations, so the expectations of objectivity for him are not the same. His behavior may be grandstanding, but I can’t be too bothered about that under the circumstances. I think it’s worth noting that the topic has shifted away from “Penn is a jerk!” to “what are his exact motives for being there and writing an article?”
---
### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/157 "2005-09-06T16:29:54Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> In this particular instance, it’s not only NOT arrogant, but it’s downright APPARENT that the “professionals” need all the help they can get. There are thousands of regular citizens down there helping in any way they can; in boats, from the trunks of their cars, with anything they can do. He’s a wealthy man and is giving money to victims of the disaster? Well fuck him, huh? The nerve of him to give people whatever he can to ease their immediate suffering. That bastard.
What isn’t apparent is that Sean Penn is helping the profesionals. As I have pointed out, there is a proper way to do that. Civilians need to stay out of the way. Almost before he got started he was almost in need of rescue himself. He’s a doofus. He’s not a bad guy. I never said fuck him. I did say he is an object of ridicule.
Handing out cash is grandstanding and making a spectacle of himself, whether or not the donees had need of it. It’ just so … Hollywood.
---
### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/158 "2005-09-06T16:32:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> You’re slightly overstating the case, but you’re not totally wrong. Part of the appeal of the article (I’m saying that in the abstract) is that it’s Sean Penn doing the writing. But I don’t think this is relevant. We don’t know how this story came to be. Maybe Penn said “I’m going down there,” and RS asked him if he’d like to make a story of it. Maybe it was all his idea, maybe it was all theirs. There are a number of different permutations. While Penn’s degree of selflessness, if any, would be affected depending on which one really happened, I wouldn’t say categorically that any of them make him a bad or vain person.
>
> Penn is not down there to do hard news reporting, as he is not qualified for that. He is there to offer his perceptions and observations, so the expectations of objectivity for him are not the same. His behavior may be grandstanding, but I can’t be too bothered about that under the circumstances. I think it’s worth noting that the topic has shifted away from “Penn is a jerk!” to “what are his exact motives for being there and writing an article?”
I pretty much agree with that, although I am in the “what a doofus” camp more than the “what a jerk” camp.
---
### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/159 "2005-09-06T16:36:54Z")
So, to update:
Sean Penn is a self-aggrandizing bastard who once played a role in _Fast Times at Ridgemont High_, and has handed cash to victims, and should be objective as a journalist, and is a media whore, and should have followed proper channels to volunteer, and may have only spent 15 minutes for a photo op, **and who has actually rescued others**.
Still looks rather favorable for Sean Penn, in my opinion. I suspect he’ll be able to sleep fairly well at night. I also suspect that he still has rescued at least one more person than any poster in this thread. Or perhaps all of us.
[http://people.monstersandcritics.com/article\_1046215.php/Sean\_Penn\_rescues\_some\_Katrina\_victims\_despite\_boat\_problems](http://people.monstersandcritics.com/article_1046215.php/Sean_Penn_rescues_some_Katrina_victims_despite_boat_problems)
> [@](#):
>
> However, despite the technical hitches, Penn - who was accompanied by a personal photographer - managed to bring several people to dry land.
>
> He said: “I’m doing whatever I can do to help. There’s a lot of people out there. There’s bodies everywhere. We could only do so many houses.”
>
> After rescuing the victims, the Oscar-winning actor gave them money and even took some of them to hospital.
>
> Thankful Johnnie Brown, 73, who was picked up by Penn, told his sister over the phone: “Guess who come and got me out of the house? Sean Penn, the actor. The boys were really nice.”
[http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/PA\_NEWA12843661125997597A0?source=PA%20Feed&ct=5](http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/PA_NEWA12843661125997597A0?source=PA%20Feed&ct=5)
> [@](#):
>
> “We were pulling drowning people out of the water, it’s the ultimate distress and human suffering … dead bodies,” he told GMTV.
>
> Penn said he had spent nine hours on Monday searching the water for people and during all that time he saw just three boats carrying US officials.
---
### Author:  [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)
#### Post date: [September 6, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193/160 "2005-09-06T16:38:02Z")
I saw a BBC news report yesteday, with BBC reporters in NO. In addition to reporting, they were also handing out bottles of water and giving people lifts with their boats.
I have no problem with reporters in this case helping out, because they can. If these were embedded reportors in Iraq and borrowing m16’s so they could pop-off a few rounds I would disagree.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193.md?page=7)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sean-penn-brings-personal-photog-on-rescue-mission/320193.md?page=9)