# Searches and incorrect conclusions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165 "2010-02-08T18:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/241 "2010-02-10T03:52:16Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah. I think we all see the colon. I wish I saw something other than the colon. When I leave this thread forever, which will happen shortly, the only memory I will retain will be of the colon, presenting itself in full view. Colon cleanse? šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/242 "2010-02-10T05:24:22Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Honestly, not alice, I cannot figure out what you are upset about. > > Giraffe pits Cesario for bringing up his Pedophilia in multiple threads. > He links to several threads in which Cesario does post about his pedophilia. > One of those threads is the Australian free speech thread, in which Cesario does go on about kiddie porn. > > Why does this bother you? Explain it very simply, please. Iā€™m sure Iā€™ll regret this, but Iā€™m going to try to summarize what I think **not\_alice** is saying. Iā€™m sure heā€™ll correct me if Iā€™m misinterpreting. First off, **Giraffe** ā€™s Pit thread is pure RO. . . easy subject for emotionalism coupled with an easy target to pick on. If **Giraffe** had only picked on the target **Cesario** , the thread might have looked like the one **DtC** did a while back. In [that thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533989), it was mostly about **Cesario** ā€™s posting style and manner. (I didnā€™t read the entire thread, just the first few pages and the last few pages.) I also donā€™t get why posting more about something is like risking other people getting an infection with a deadly virus, but thatā€™s not **not-alice** ā€™s point. \*\* not\_alice\*\*'s point is that by adding the link on free speech which is a legitimate topic for **Cesario** to be posting on, **Giraffe** made it appear that he is Pitting anyone (but particularly any pedophiles) who speak on the topic of child pornography in free speech threads. Since thatā€™s one of the main issues in free speech threads, **Giraffe** broadened his OP too widely. The result may be that people may be less open to speak about child pornography in future free speech threads, and particularly pedophiles may be less likely to discuss any topic here. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/243 "2010-02-10T06:08:20Z")
Alice, Iā€™ve read through your questions in the [ATMB thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12098082#post12098082). Itā€™s a pity that you are cognitively impaired. I wouldnā€™t wish that on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/244 "2010-02-10T06:18:54Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Alice, Iā€™ve read through your questions in the [ATMB thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12098082#post12098082). > > Itā€™s a pity that you are cognitively impaired. I wouldnā€™t wish that on anyone. Glad you are so happy to live in certainty in the center of things in the herd. But you can;'t have a center of a herd if some are not out on the edges where the dangers are more prevalent. If you donā€™t get it, then donā€™t worry about it, it is not for you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/245 "2010-02-10T06:23:13Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Iā€™m sure Iā€™ll regret this, but Iā€™m going to try to summarize what I think **not\_alice** is saying. Iā€™m sure heā€™ll correct me if Iā€™m misinterpreting. > > First off, **Giraffe** ā€™s Pit thread is pure RO. . . easy subject for emotionalism coupled with an easy target to pick on. If **Giraffe** had only picked on the target **Cesario** , the thread might have looked like the one **DtC** did a while back. In [that thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533989), it was mostly about **Cesario** ā€™s posting style and manner. (I didnā€™t read the entire thread, just the first few pages and the last few pages.) I also donā€™t get why posting more about something is like risking other people getting an infection with a deadly virus, but thatā€™s not **not-alice** ā€™s point. > \*\* > not\_alice\*\*'s point is that by adding the link on free speech which is a legitimate topic for **Cesario** to be posting on, **Giraffe** made it appear that he is Pitting anyone (but particularly any pedophiles) who speak on the topic of child pornography in free speech threads. Since thatā€™s one of the main issues in free speech threads, **Giraffe** broadened his OP too widely. The result may be that people may be less open to speak about child pornography in future free speech threads, and particularly pedophiles may be less likely to discuss any topic here. Thatā€™s pretty good I guess! Iā€™d also add that The Free Speech thing negates the certainty of the OP, but yeah, maybe that is just garden variety RO and chest-puffery from Giraffe. Other than that, and that I donā€™t know OTTOMH if pedophiles might be less likely to post anywhere, I think the rest of this is a good summary. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/246 "2010-02-10T06:47:47Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Iā€™m sure Iā€™ll regret this, but Iā€™m going to try to summarize what I think **not\_alice** is saying. Iā€™m sure heā€™ll correct me if Iā€™m misinterpreting. > > First off, **Giraffe** ā€™s Pit thread is pure RO. . . easy subject for emotionalism coupled with an easy target to pick on. If **Giraffe** had only picked on the target **Cesario** , the thread might have looked like the one **DtC** did a while back. In [that thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533989), it was mostly about **Cesario** ā€™s posting style and manner. (I didnā€™t read the entire thread, just the first few pages and the last few pages.) I also donā€™t get why posting more about something is like risking other people getting an infection with a deadly virus, but thatā€™s not **not-alice** ā€™s point. > \*\* > not\_alice\*\*'s point is that by adding the link on free speech which is a legitimate topic for **Cesario** to be posting on, **Giraffe** made it appear that he is Pitting anyone (but particularly any pedophiles) who speak on the topic of child pornography in free speech threads. Since thatā€™s one of the main issues in free speech threads, **Giraffe** broadened his OP too widely. The result may be that people may be less open to speak about child pornography in future free speech threads, and particularly pedophiles may be less likely to discuss any topic here. I donā€™t see why Giraffeā€™s thread was RO in the sense itā€™s usually used. RO refers to threads where someone posts about some horrible crime and posters weigh in on just how horrible it is. What Giraffe was doing was simply pitting another poster for acting like a jerk, which is (a)what the pit is for and (b) eminently justified in that case. Giraffe linked to a lot of threads in which Cesario posted ā€œLook at me!ā€ posts which served no purpose except to remind everyone that he is an unrepentant pedophile. After a long list of pretty bad posts Giraffe added the free speech post as a case which, while not as bad as the other links, still involved posting about his obsession. Giraffe was clearly not posting about anyone who would post about kiddie porn in a free speech discussion, he was posting about Cesario, who is a gross asshole and a troll. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/247 "2010-02-10T06:52:57Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Giraffe linked to a lot of threads in which Cesario posted ā€œLook at me!ā€ posts which served no purpose except to remind everyone that he is an unrepentant pedophile. Except that the Free Speech thing has no such "look at me " language, or else someone would have posted it by now. And that is why I pitted him. Feel free to post the ā€œlook at meā€ language in that thread if you see it. I will still apologize if some can find it and put it side by side with the others for comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/248 "2010-02-10T06:59:36Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Except that the Free Speech thing has no such "look at me " language, or else someone would have posted it by now. > > And that is why I pitted him. > > Feel free to post the ā€œlook at meā€ language in that thread if you see it. I will still apologize if some can find it and put it side by side with the others for comparison. You know what, **not alice** , Iā€™m going to teach my cat math. I think Iā€™ll have better luck with that. Good luck with your incomprehensible crusade. Iā€™ll still be watching, as itā€™s pretty funny. I really only wanted to respond to Heffalump and Roo, as he (or she) can read and think. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/249 "2010-02-10T06:59:52Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Iā€™d also add that The Free Speech thing negates the certainty of the OP, but yeah, maybe that is just garden variety RO and chest-puffery from Giraffe. Other than that, and that I donā€™t know OTTOMH if pedophiles might be less likely to post anywhere, I think the rest of this is a good summary. Well, pretty much, itā€™s clear that itā€™s RO. Hereā€™s the [definition of RO that Giraffe gives on his message board.](http://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=7945) > [@Giraffe](#): > > Lastly, note that so-called recreational outrage threads (e.g. ā€œMan confesses to raping 100 babies, I want to murder himā€) do not belong in the Pit. Who is going to argue in favor of baby-raping? Hardly anyone. He knows that no one will argue in favor of baby-raping. But in his OP, he has to bridge the gap from someone who is talking about it to someone who has done it. So he claims that someone who casually talks about it is taking it too lightly because . . . and this is where the analogy is pretty weak. . .itā€™s like playing with weaponized smallpox because the danger is so great. So that must assume that either other people can get it from reading about it. Or that the person posting will be more likely to cause the danger because of their own posting about it. But thereā€™s no evidence that either of those are true. And then after he outlines the dangers of talking about it, he ends with a demand for **Cesario** to stop talking about it because it grosses _him_ ( **Giraffe** ) out. When you talk about the certainty of the Pit OP, you seem to be saying that there was a case that **Giraffe** was laying out, and that all of the components of his case were shown by the examples. Given that itā€™s simple RO, I donā€™t think the certainty of the OP is much of a factor. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/250 "2010-02-10T07:07:28Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I really only wanted to respond to Heffalump and Roo, as he (or she) can read and think. Donā€™t bet the farm on that. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/251 "2010-02-10T07:22:42Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > Well, pretty much, itā€™s clear that itā€™s RO. Hereā€™s the [definition of RO that Giraffe gives on his message board.](http://www.giraffeboards.com/showthread.php?t=7945) > > He knows that no one will argue in favor of baby-raping. But in his OP, he has to bridge the gap from someone who is talking about it to someone who has done it. So he claims that someone who casually talks about it is taking it too lightly because . . . and this is where the analogy is pretty weak. . .itā€™s like playing with weaponized smallpox because the danger is so great. So that must assume that either other people can get it from reading about it. Or that the person posting will be more likely to cause the danger because of their own posting about it. But thereā€™s no evidence that either of those are true. > > And then after he outlines the dangers of talking about it, he ends with a demand for **Cesario** to stop talking about it because it grosses _him_ ( **Giraffe** ) out. > > When you talk about the certainty of the Pit OP, you seem to be saying that there was a case that **Giraffe** was laying out, and that all of the components of his case were shown by the examples. Given that itā€™s simple RO, I donā€™t think the certainty of the OP is much of a factor. Mmm maybe. But that is a pretty thin defintion of RO - if he could somehow get someone to argue with him, then it is not RO and belongs in his Pit, and maybe by extension in this one? So isnā€™t the fact that I argued with him, and you understood the argument sufficient to mean it is not RO by his boardā€™s definition? Of course RO on his board may not be RO here and vice versa, but stillā€¦Iā€™d say if he had left the Free Speech thread out, it would have met the definition of RO you provided, with it, it seems not so much, but I am tired now. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/252 "2010-02-10T07:25:03Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I really only wanted to respond to Heffalump and Roo, as he (or she) can read and think. Not really. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/253 "2010-02-10T07:28:03Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You know what, **not alice** , Iā€™m going to teach my cat math. I think Iā€™ll have better luck with that. Good luck with your incomprehensible crusade. Iā€™ll still be watching, as itā€™s pretty funny. I really only wanted to respond to Heffalump and Roo, as he (or she) can read and think. You will have better luck teaching your cat math, then finding the outrageous posts in a thread that has been pitted? Thanks ever so much for making my case for me. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/254 "2010-02-10T10:25:38Z")
I reckon the best thing to do at this point is to start a BBQ thread pitting _both_ **not\_alice** and **curlcoat**. After the OP and a couple of responses, leave the two of 'em to talk each other to death. Except that wonā€™t happen because each of them both want the last word. Could be the longest (and most tedious) thread in internet history though! Anyone wanna contact the Guiness Records people to get them prepared?? šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/255 "2010-02-10T10:42:29Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I reckon the best thing to do at this point is to start a BBQ thread pitting _both_ **not\_alice** and **curlcoat**. After the OP and a couple of responses, leave the two of 'em to talk each other to death. > > Except that wonā€™t happen because each of them both want the last word. Could be the longest (and most tedious) thread in internet history though! Anyone wanna contact the Guiness Records people to get them prepared?? > > šŸ˜› I can see how that would go downā€¦ ā€œSnort!ā€ ā€œFree speech!ā€ ā€œSnort!ā€ ā€œFree speech!ā€ ā€œSnortā€, _ad nauseum_ No thanks. Pass. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/256 "2010-02-10T12:43:18Z")
Geez, **not alice** is like **curlcoat** on speed. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/257 "2010-02-10T14:51:48Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Geez, **not\_alice** is like **curlcoat** on speed. ā€¦indeed. There was this classic thread which **not\_alice** derailed not so long agoā€¦it starts from post 208 and is all down-hill from there. Its really good for a laugh: I still canā€™t believe that there is someone out there that is so willfully obtuse. (Although I have to congratulate **not\_alice** on uniting all sides of the SSM debate.) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5) ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/258 "2010-02-10T15:36:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > ā€¦indeed. > > There was this classic thread which **not\_alice** derailed not so long agoā€¦it starts from post 208 and is all down-hill from there. Its really good for a laugh: I still canā€™t believe that there is someone out there that is so willfully obtuse. > > (Although I have to congratulate **not\_alice** on uniting all sides of the SSM debate.) > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5) You will be happy to know that that thread was pretty much concurrent with some behind the scenes political work that earned me notice and continues to earn me notice from many of the top national organizations focused on civil rights for gays. I am proud of that work, it was unprecedented, and folks discussion in that thread was invaluable in helping me to advance the cause, to literally flip a political vote by anticipating some of the arguments against me in discussions with local politicians. I know it is only one piece of a much larger struggle, but thanks to everyone on that thread, even if belated, for their roles in assisting me. It means a lot to a lot of people what the result was. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/259 "2010-02-10T15:43:24Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > You will be happy to know that that thread was pretty much concurrent with some behind the scenes political work that earned me notice and continues to earn me notice from many of the top national organizations focused on civil rights for gays. I donā€™t know how you find the time to talk down to us peons, with all the important work youā€™re doing. I guess we should be in awe of your greatness. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/260 "2010-02-10T15:48:31Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > I donā€™t know how you find the time to talk down to us peons, with all the important work youā€™re doing. I guess we should be in awe of your greatness. :rolleyes: Maybe you should look into your self esteem if you consider yourself a peon. I value the collective and sometimes individual opinions here. Donā€™t you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165.md?page=14)