# Searches and incorrect conclusions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165 "2010-02-08T18:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/261 "2010-02-10T16:00:23Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > You will be happy to know that that thread was pretty much concurrent with some behind the scenes political work that earned me notice and continues to earn me notice from many of the top national organizations focused on civil rights for gays. > > I am proud of that work, it was unprecedented, and folks discussion in that thread was invaluable in helping me to advance the cause, to literally flip a political vote by anticipating some of the arguments against me in discussions with local politicians. > > I know it is only one piece of a much larger struggle, but thanks to everyone on that thread, even if belated, for their roles in assisting me. It means a lot to a lot of people what the result was. A troll with a cause, as it were. On whose behalf is our collective chain being yanked in this thread, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/262 "2010-02-10T16:03:04Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Maybe you should look into your self esteem if you consider yourself a peon. I value the collective and sometimes individual opinions here. Don’t you? Yeah, you value the collective opinion here. That’s why this thread is now on Page 6. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/263 "2010-02-10T16:14:52Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Yeah, you value the collective opinion here. That’s why this thread is now on Page 6. :rolleyes: Didn’t say how I use the opinion, but I certainly value having a variety of opinions, and measuring how strongly a person holds them in order to determine how it is useful. Doesn’t everyone? Or are all discussions and opinions of equal value to you? Serous question… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/264 "2010-02-10T16:16:28Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …indeed. > > There was this classic thread which **not\_alice** derailed not so long ago…it starts from post 208 and is all down-hill from there. Its really good for a laugh:\*\* I still can’t believe that there is someone out there that is so willfully obtuse.\*\* > > (Although I have to congratulate **not\_alice** on uniting all sides of the SSM debate.) > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5) I don’t believe it. It takes a certain amount of intelligence to read a post and interpret it to mean the exact opposite of what the poster was clearly saying. It can’t just be stupidity. It’s a put-up job. **not alice** really isn’t as stupid as he’s pretending to be. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/265 "2010-02-10T16:21:10Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > You will be happy to know that that thread was pretty much concurrent with some behind the scenes political work that earned me notice and continues to earn me notice from many of the top national organizations focused on civil rights for gays. FANTASTIC! Along with your work [on the Hubble](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11319442&postcount=212), you should win in a landslide! ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/266 "2010-02-10T16:24:59Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Didn’t say how I use the opinion, but I certainly value having a variety of opinions, and measuring how strongly a person holds them in order to determine how it is useful. Doesn’t everyone? Or are all discussions and opinions of equal value to you? Serous question… Serious answer: After 6 pages of “you v. everyone else”, does it occur to you that your obstinate tenacity to your position is a bit misplaced and foolish? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/267 "2010-02-10T16:25:46Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I don’t believe it. It takes a certain amount of intelligence to read a post and interpret it to mean the exact opposite of what the poster was clearly saying. It can’t just be stupidity. It’s a put-up job. **not alice** really isn’t as stupid as he’s pretending to be. I see what you did there 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/268 "2010-02-10T16:25:55Z")
Oh, **Heffalump and Roo** , always with the passive aggressive jabs. You should vent that anger directly, you’ll feel better. And, although I think it’s obvious to anyone who wasn’t hit in the head with a ball peen hammer, I’ll go ahead and point out that recreational outrage is the exact opposite of Pitting another poster whose actions on the message board are pissing you off. I know the latter concept will seem strange to you – it’s called confronting someone directly. So, to summarize: RO: venting about something that hasn’t directly impacted you to others not involved, where the parties involved will never see it. Pitting: telling the person who is annoying you that they are, and why, in a forum where they can respond. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/269 "2010-02-10T16:33:25Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Serious answer: > > After 6 pages of “you v. everyone else”, does it occur to you that your obstinate tenacity to your position is a bit misplaced and foolish? Whatever do you mean? Because a bunch of anonymous people have gathered in one small corner of the internet, and I have come to notice it, that I must leave holding their position? I don’t take value in changing your mind, I take value in having your mind explained to me by you to the best of your ability, and I try to give you every chance to do your best. No one makes you participate if you don’t want to.I don’t take value in changing your mind, I take value in having your mind explained to me by you to the best of your ability, and I try to give you every chance to do your best. No one makes you participate if you don’t want to. I take your opinions seriously and evaluate them for what I think they are worth. Others do the same, but not always with the same level of care or openmindedness or consideration. C’est la vie. Like I said, your opinions in that other thread were very helpful in flipping some politicians’ votes in a situation that was deemed impossible and intractable. That is a compliment to you, even if you represented the opposite view from me. It was helpful because it allowed me to anticipate and effectively counter the viewpoints of the politicians and the others who had their ears, and it did not go unnoticed. I thank everyone, even belatedly for their help. In this thread, and the other related ones, your opinions, whatever they are, and however deeply they are held, and the way you express them are very valuable data to me personally. That is why I am here at all, to learn. Maybe my method is unfamiliar to you, but it is not unheard of in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/270 "2010-02-10T16:48:28Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Whatever do you mean? Because a bunch of anonymous people have gathered in one small corner of the internet, and I have come to notice it, that I must leave holding their position? > > I don’t take value in changing your mind, I take value in having your mind explained to me by you to the best of your ability, and I try to give you every chance to do your best. No one makes you participate if you don’t want to.I don’t take value in changing your mind, I take value in having your mind explained to me by you to the best of your ability, and I try to give you every chance to do your best. No one makes you participate if you don’t want to. > > I take your opinions seriously and evaluate them for what I think they are worth. Others do the same, but not always with the same level of care or openmindedness or consideration. C’est la vie. > > Like I said, your opinions in that other thread were very helpful in flipping some politicians’ votes in a situation that was deemed impossible and intractable. That is a compliment to you, even if you represented the opposite view from me. It was helpful because it allowed me to anticipate and effectively counter the viewpoints of the politicians and the others who had their ears, and it did not go unnoticed. I thank everyone, even belatedly for their help. > > In this thread, and the other related ones, your opinions, whatever they are, and however deeply they are held, and the way you express them are very valuable data to me personally. That is why I am here at all, to learn. Maybe my method is unfamiliar to you, but it is not unheard of in the world. **not\_alice** , I don’t feel the need to respond with insults this time, since you aren’t insulting me back at this time. Oh, by the way - I think you’re mixing me up with another poster. I wasn’t arguing with you in that SSM thread. My point, which you evidently missed, was not that you should change your opinion to match mine, or vice versa. I simply asked you: _Does it occur to you that you might be mistaken?_ Look, you obviously enjoy it here at the SDMB. I’m inferring as a corallary that you have a modicum of respect for the thoughts of the posters here. I know if it was me versus _everyone else_ in a 6-page thread, I’d certainly think I might be in error. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/271 "2010-02-10T17:04:58Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > **not\_alice** , I don’t feel the need to respond with insults this time, since you aren’t insulting me back at this time. Oh, by the way - I think you’re mixing me up with another poster. I wasn’t arguing with you in that SSM thread. That was the “royal you”, not you specifically. I know that. > [@](#): > > My point, which you evidently missed, was not that you should change your opinion to match mine, or vice versa. I simply asked you: _Does it occur to you that you might be mistaken?_ Of course. That is why I am so eager to have someone present a rational case. To the extent that some here tried, and they did, they were not persuasive in that regard. Have you considered that you and others might be mistaken? I suspect you will either say no, or give the same answer I just gave. > [@](#): > > Look, you obviously enjoy it here at the SDMB. I’m inferring as a corallary that you have a modicum of respect for the thoughts of the posters here. I know if it was me versus _everyone else_ in a 6-page thread, I’d certainly think I might be in error. Well, this pit thread aside, my broader opinion is that pedophilia is worth discussing and learning about rationally so we can devise treatments or other methods to handle it without the witchhunt hysteria. I know those discussions can and do take place in some communities because I am privy to it, in my own house and social circles. So I know I am right that that _can_ happen. That makes in interesting to observe when and where and why it _doesn’t_ happen, to me at least. It seems that some otherwise thoughtful and good people are reduced to a pile of extreme reaction-mode only when this topic comes up. Similarly for sex offenders in place of pedophiles. I find that fascinating personally. No right or wrong, just observing as the world goes by. Sometimes I will stick my fingers in it just as a sort of measurement in the wind. That’s all that is happening here, and it is what happened in the other SSM thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/272 "2010-02-10T17:29:11Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Of course. That is why I am so eager to have someone present a rational case. To the extent that some here tried, and they did, they were not persuasive in that regard. > > Have you considered that you and others might be mistaken? > > I suspect you will either say no, or give the same answer I just gave. Of course I consider that I might be wrong - with pretty much anything in my life beyond the simplest thoughts and tasks. Especially before I open up my big mouth here, where you will (deservedly) get your proverbial ass handed to you if you talk shit. It’s not so much that others should have to “prove” that you’re wrong in this case. You started this thread - _it’s up to you to convince us_. And at that, you have failed miserably, as I’m sure even you’d acknowledge, as evinced by the complete lack of agreement with your position and the ever-increasing mockery of your posts. If you really don’t get this, I’m afraid I’ll have to switch back into sarcastic wise-ass mode shortly, if only for my own sanity/enjoyment. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/273 "2010-02-10T17:50:34Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Of course. That is why I am so eager to have someone present a rational case. Could you please [explain the irrationality of this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12098235&postcount=190). Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/274 "2010-02-10T18:06:50Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Of course I consider that I might be wrong - with pretty much anything in my life beyond the simplest thoughts and tasks. Especially before I open up my big mouth here, where you will (deservedly) get your proverbial ass handed to you if you talk shit. I don’t consider this such a sacred place that I give it any more or less due than anyplace else. I thought I might all those years spent lurkign, but experience has shown otherwise, much to my disappointment honestly. > [@](#): > > It’s not so much that others should have to “prove” that you’re wrong in this case. You started this thread - _it’s up to you to convince us_. And at that, you have failed miserably, as I’m sure even you’d acknowledge, as evinced by the complete lack of agreement with your position and the ever-increasing mockery of your posts. I don’t have to prove anything, it is the pit. That people don’t agree and how they present themselves is something I am interested in, above and beyond their specific “point”. I do this in threads I don’t post in too. I want to see how people present themselves in a place devoted to “fighting ignoraance”. > [@](#): > > If you really don’t get this, I’m afraid I’ll have to switch back into sarcastic wise-ass mode shortly, if only for my own sanity/enjoyment. I get what you are saying, but it is not really all that germane to what I am saying. Do you get that? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/275 "2010-02-10T18:18:20Z")
[quote=“PlainJain, post:190, topic:528165”] OK, I’ll play your game. I’ll get you quotes. But I’ll do it objectively. What would make the OP wrong is showing it to be factually inaccurate. Let’s begin! The thrust of this OP and this thread: So **Giraffe** was mistaken, that’s your claim? As I read his OP, **Giraffe** ’s point seems to be that **Cesario** is a shitty person because he is one of _“those pedophiles who wants to play with fire by broadcasting their fantasies onto a public forum **or** whine about not being understood or accepted.”_ OK, clear enough. Did **Giraffe** make this case? He then provides links and examples of **Cesario** doing just that. Fantasies broadcasted, conditions met. > [@](#): > > Then **Giraffe** says: > In which **Giraffe** provides additional proof of **Cesario** ’s “whining about not being understood or accepted.” That is the claim, not yet suported by the actual words in that actual thread. I gotta go for the rest of the day. Perhaps you can find those words in the thread and post them here for us? It is all I have been asking for, all along. If it is there, it will be easy to find. > [@](#): > > So **Giraffe** ’s OP contains exactly what he claims it does. Which would make your assertion wrong, as well as your OP. so you are repeating ad nauseum what others have said, and not addressing my easy to address objection to it. Sheesh! > [@](#): > > Why in the name of Zeuss’ butthole you find that so hard to comprehend is beyond me but you must be one real piece of samsonite. Samsonite? As in luggage? I don’t find it hard to comprehend - it would be a perfectly good argument **if it were supported by the actual quotes in the thread he alleges exist,** as he provided the other ones easily enough. Why is **THAT** so hard to comprehend? > [@](#): > > All of your free speech bullshit is just so much smoke and mirrors. That is not even on point. If you object to Free Speech as it is known in the US, then go post int hat thread - I will be back there soon. There are others who object to US style free speech, you won’t be alone. But that is off topic for here and I won’t discuss it here. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/276 "2010-02-10T18:32:38Z")
Is anyone else getting a really strong [Drmark2000](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7143425#post7143425) vibe? It’s almost like not\_alice channels him. Tell me not\_alice: did you teach yourself to transcend boredom at an early age? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/277 "2010-02-10T18:38:35Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > Is anyone else getting a really strong [Drmark2000](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7143425#post7143425) vibe? It’s almost like not\_alice channels him. Tell me not\_alice: did you teach yourself to transcend boredom at an early age? If you are bored, no one is making you participate. You are free to leave at any time. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/278 "2010-02-10T18:39:38Z")
Wow, stunning. You and your weapons grade crazy make-believe. Just… wow. > [@not\_alice](#): > > Samsonite? As in luggage? No, as in baggage. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/279 "2010-02-10T18:40:29Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > not addressing my easy to address objection to it Your objection is easy to address: Cesario said a few times that he would never go to Australia because he likes kiddy porn literature and it’s illegal there. Thus that thread is another example of him bringing up his thing. You want a line showing “Cesario’s whining about not being understood or accepted.” Here’s a quote: > [@Australian Free Speech Issues](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/australian-free-speech-issues/525298/70): > > I decided a long time ago that I would never set foot on that continent. However hostile my own society may be towards me, looking at how bad things could be makes me appreciate the United States all the more. So there you. Now apologize to Giraffe. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165/280 "2010-02-10T18:53:09Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Wow, stunning. You and your weapons grade crazy make-believe. Just… wow. > > No, as in baggage. So you didn’t understand? Or you are not really as rational as you were pretending to be? You would rather resort to ad hominem attacks then find the one single quote in one thread that would make the case. I get it. Take comfort that you are far from alone 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searches-and-incorrect-conclusions/528165.md?page=15)