# Searching For Sugar Man (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078 "2013-01-23T05:44:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/41 "2013-02-25T11:11:56Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Sixto was not there unfortunately. Apparently he’s on tour in South Africa at the moment and there was not time to fly him to Los Angeles and back again. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/42 "2013-02-25T11:38:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It is an honest account of their story. What part of their story do you think was left out? The part that listed events that they knew nothing about and that had no impact at all on their story? Is the film also worthy of contempt, in your view, because it makes no mention of the mother of Rodriguez’s daughters thus giving the impression that he cloned them or somehow spawned them thru parthenogenesis? > > :dubious: The part where it strongly implied that Rodriguez didn’t play music at all after the early 70s and was completely forgotten by/unknown to everyone on Earth except his immediate circle and his South African fans. The film is dishonest because that is the impression it strives to present. Now, the film is about the South African fans, and Rodriguez’ Australian/New Zealand success/tours may be “irrelevant” to them, but the film is **ALSO** about Rodriguez’ status as a “forgotten/unknown” performer, except (supposedly) to his SA fans, and the fact that he WAS FAMOUS AND TOURED SUCCESSFULLY OUTSIDE THE USA is pretty fucking relevant to that half of the story. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/43 "2013-02-25T12:06:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It is an honest account of their story. What part of their story do you think was left out? The part that listed events that they knew nothing about and that had no impact at all on their story? Is the film also worthy of contempt, in your view, because it makes no mention of the mother of Rodriguez’s daughters thus giving the impression that he cloned them or somehow spawned them thru parthenogenesis? > > :dubious: I don’t really care one way or the other but … how could they not know those details (Australia) after doing some basic research? ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/44 "2013-02-25T13:25:22Z")
Whether Benjelloul knew or didn’t know is totally irrelevant as it was not part of the story he wanted to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/45 "2013-02-25T18:14:03Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The part where it strongly implied that Rodriguez didn’t play music at all after the early 70s and was completely forgotten by/unknown to everyone on Earth except his immediate circle and his South African fans. The film is dishonest because that is the impression it strives to present. > > Now, the film is about the South African fans, and Rodriguez’ Australian/New Zealand success/tours may be “irrelevant” to them, but the film is **ALSO** about Rodriguez’ status as a “forgotten/unknown” performer, except (supposedly) to his SA fans, and the fact that he WAS FAMOUS AND TOURED SUCCESSFULLY OUTSIDE THE USA is pretty fucking relevant to that half of the story. No, it’s not “strongly implied that Rodriguez didn’t play music at all after the early '70s” and no, it’s not at all relevant to the story being told. The best you could assert and be backed up by the actual film is that it’s noted that _as a recording artist_ he stopped producing music. And to the two guys from SA, he was completely unknown to everyone, even to them, except as “that guy who recorded 2 albums that we love.” BIG congrats to the film, the director, Rodriguez and everyone involved for the Oscar win. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/46 "2013-02-25T18:21:27Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And to the two guys from SA, he was completely unknown to everyone, even to them, except as “that guy who recorded 2 albums that we love.” Also, they and many others in South Africa thought he had killed himself and only disagreed on his method of doing so. I think people forget how hard it was to find out information, especially obscure information, back before the Internet. One of their biggest breakthroughs was realizing the name “Dearborn” in one of his lyrics might be a clue as to where he was from - they didn’t even know that when they started out. Plus, there were two different names credited as songwriters (both of which seemed to be Sixto) so they didn’t even know what his real name was. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/47 "2013-02-27T16:56:55Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Whether Benjelloul knew or didn’t know is totally irrelevant as it was not part of the story he wanted to tell. Not having seen the doc, I’ll assume his relative success in Australia had nothing to do with the story he wanted to tell… even if some folks believe that a documentary should lean toward the whole truth and away from just being about the part of a story that the makers want to tell. It does have something to do with arguments being made that “they didn’t know” though. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/48 "2013-02-27T17:48:30Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The part where it strongly implied that Rodriguez didn’t play music at all after the early 70s and was completely forgotten by/unknown to everyone on Earth except his immediate circle and his South African fans. The film is dishonest because that is the impression it strives to present. > > Now, the film is about the South African fans, and Rodriguez’ Australian/New Zealand success/tours may be “irrelevant” to them, **but the film is ALSO about Rodriguez’ status as a “forgotten/unknown” performer, except (supposedly) to his SA fans**, and the fact that he WAS FAMOUS AND TOURED SUCCESSFULLY OUTSIDE THE USA is pretty fucking relevant to that half of the story. I found your error (the bolded part). The film is not as you describe. Part of the film is about Rodriguez status as a “forgotten/unknown” performer in his home country. I don’t recall any time that the narration or the film presents him as “completely unknown to everyone on Terra except (supposedly) to his SA fans”. It’s not like they made mention of his lack of sales in Japan, or Pakistan, or Chile. Would you like to know why? Because it’s not at all relevent to the story of the search for him and what happened afterward. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/49 "2013-02-27T20:01:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I found your error (the bolded part). The film is not as you describe. Part of the film is about Rodriguez status as a “forgotten/unknown” performer in his home country. I don’t recall any time that the narration or the film presents him as “completely unknown to everyone on Terra except (supposedly) to his SA fans”. It’s not like they made mention of his lack of sales in Japan, or Pakistan, or Chile. Would you like to know why? Because it’s not at all relevent to the story of the search for him and what happened afterward. Great point, Bo. The movie is about two things - his popularity in South Africa, and his failure in the United States. He could have been huge in Kenya or Belgium as well, but it doesn’t matter to the story being told. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/50 "2013-02-27T21:22:05Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Great point, Bo. > > The movie is about two things - his popularity in South Africa, and his failure in the United States. He could have been huge in Kenya or Belgium as well, but it doesn’t matter to the story being told. From what I can tell, his success in Australia has been over-stated. Basically, his two albums were released, followed by a tour in 1979 and a tour album. But there is no reference for the length of the tour or what cities. Then he was an opener for _Midnight Oil_ in 1981. As one who has been to many concerts and seen how little respect opening acts frequently get, I wouldn’t place too much emphasis on it. How many people who saw Peter Gabriel’s _Scratch My Back_ tour remember that [Ane Brun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ane_Brun) opened for him? By comparison, I know of [an Australian blues musician](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNGQ2Il0H4s) who has toured extensively in the US and [released several albums here.](http://www.amazon.com/Harper/e/B001LHLXCU/ref=ntt_mus_dp_pel) Does that make him well-known in the US? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/51 "2013-02-28T07:55:50Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I think people forget how hard it was to find out information, especially obscure information, back before the Internet. Especially in Apartheid South Africa. We had a full-on Government department called the Censorship Board, that monitored all media channels and literature publications. Hell, the Apartheid Junta saw to it that we only got TV[in 1976](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_South_Africa#Opposition_to_introduction), and retained full censorship control for years. Suffice to say, news of musical tours in Australia in '79 wouldn’t have been that easy to come by. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/52 "2013-02-28T14:27:12Z")
But the “search” for Rodriguez didn’t take place in Apartheid South Africa. It was initiated in 1996. And the research could have been done elsewhere anyway. Anyhow, that doesn’t matter, because here’s an interview from 1998 that proves the South Africans knew about Rodriguez touring Australia: > **[Fact: Rodriguez lives](https://mg.co.za/article/1998-02-20-fact-rodriguez-lives/)** > > Craig Bartholomew tracked down Rodriguez, who is alive, well, living in Detroit and planning to tour South Africa next month ‘Thanks for your time, and you can thank me for mine, and after that’s said, forget it!” were the poignant last words spoken,... ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/53 "2013-02-28T15:07:21Z")
I rented and watched the movie based on the OP and didn’t know about the Oscar buzz. GREAT film. Thanks for starting this thread and congrats to the film makers for winning. I agree with Bo that the omitted parts are irrelevant to the film and do not constitute deception. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/54 "2013-02-28T15:19:18Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > But the “search” for Rodriguez didn’t take place in Apartheid South Africa. It was initiated in 1996. And the research could have been done elsewhere anyway. Anyhow, that doesn’t matter, because here’s an interview from 1998 that proves the South Africans knew about Rodriguez touring Australia: > > [Fact: Rodriguez lives – The Mail & Guardian](http://mg.co.za/article/1998-02-20-fact-rodriguez-lives/) If you watch the film, you’ll see that they found Rodriguez in 1998. In fact, the guy who wrote that article (Craig Bartholomew) is one of the two people that was searching for Sixto that ultimately caused the film to be made. And it just stands to reason that after interviewing him and asking about his career that the tour of Australia would have come up. It may be that you (and others) are under the impression that the search and the film were contemperaneous; they were not. I thought the film made it clear that it was talking about events that had happened over a decade before, but perhaps others found that detail more obtuse. ETA: **White SIFL** , you’re very welcome and I’m glad to hear that you enjoyed the film. I’ve watched it twice since starting this thread and have found that repeated viewings and foreknowledge do not diminish it’s impact on me at all. It’s a terrific film and IMO totally deserved the Oscar last Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/55 "2013-02-28T15:47:36Z")
In the most recent Fretboard Journal, Dave Matthews is interviewed. He supports the basic outlines - that within some circles, Rodriguez was HUGE in SA and he, Matthews, was flummoxed coming back to America and discovering that folks here weren’t aware of him. Matthews describes Rodriguez as bigger than James Taylor and mentioned with Dylan. I have no dog in this hunt, but I am pretty sure that Matthews doesn’t either - he appears to be just sharing what he experienced. He also discusses how his first big guitar influence was Joan Armatrading. You know, I am not a big DMB fan, but that’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/56 "2013-02-28T15:50:51Z")
No, I realize that the events preceded the documentary by many years. That’s why it’s puzzling that that information, whenever it was learned, wasn’t integrated into the film. I think anyone viewing the film without any other knowledge of Rodriguez would be really surprised to find out later about this other chapter of his story. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/57 "2013-02-28T16:44:53Z")
One other factor is that people might think that the film was made recently. Malik Bendjelloul had [been working on since 2007](http://movies.nytimes.com/2012/07/27/movies/malik-bendjellouls-searching-for-sugar-man.html?partner=rss&emc=rss). The [_New York Times_ article says](http://movies.nytimes.com/2012/07/27/movies/malik-bendjellouls-searching-for-sugar-man.html?partner=rss&emc=rss): > [@](#): > > In his notes for a 1996 South African CD of Rodriguez’s album, “Coming From Reality,” Mr. Segerman asked if there were any “musicologist-detectives out there” who could help answer what had become of the musician. A journalist, Craig Bartholomew-Strydom, read that line and, picking up the challenge like a gauntlet, was soon sifting the facts from decades of speculation, including the rumor that Rodriguez had died onstage after setting himself on fire. > > The search for Rodriguez intensified with the introduction of a nifty little tool called the Internet and a Web site that Mr. Segerman and Alec McCrindle created in 1997, baptized the Great Rodriguez Hunt. …which is what caught Bendjelloul’s attention. [QUOTE=Ellis Aponte Jr] No, I realize that the events preceded the documentary by many years. That’s why it’s puzzling that that information, whenever it was learned, wasn’t integrated into the film. I think anyone viewing the film without any other knowledge of Rodriguez would be really surprised to find out later about this other chapter of his story. [/QUOTE] Hence the title, _Searching for Sugar Man_. The quest, the mystery, was the most interesting part of the story Bendjelloul had to tell. Segerman mentions Australia in the NYT interview, but there is no reason to believe he was aware of the connection before 1997, and that is the period the film concentrates on. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/58 "2013-04-30T04:01:35Z")
I am posting this from Rodriguez’s show in SLC! He’s taking the stage now! ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/59 "2013-04-30T15:48:12Z")
The blu-ray for [Searching for Sugar Man](http://www.amazon.com/Searching-Sugar-Man-Blu-ray-Rodriguez/dp/B008JFUTUY/ref=sr_1_3?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1367336818&sr=1-3&keywords=searching+for+sugar+man) is on Amazon for $14.99 right now. StG ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078/60 "2013-04-30T16:58:29Z")
Thanks for the reminder, I need to try to watch again. Caught it on an airplane in January and it kept putting me to sleep. Which was nice, since I rarely sleep on airplanes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/searching-for-sugar-man-spoilers/648078.md?page=4)