# Season Long NFC North Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 1, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514 "2009-09-01T17:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/581 "2009-11-22T23:30:08Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > And the defense was very good, at least until it quit being aggressive and played on it’s heels. I didn’t get to watch or listen to the game, but I was listening to the post-game radio show on WTMJ out of Milwaukee. It sounds like both Al Harris and Aaron Kampman had gotten knocked out of the game with knee injuries by that point…I wonder if that played into the change in how the defense played late. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/582 "2009-11-22T23:41:24Z")
Vikings can eliminate Chicago from the division next week. It’ll guarantee at least a 10-6 record, which is the best the Bears would be able to achieve, and the Vikings would have the better divisional record. It would bring the Vikings magic number against the Packers (for the division) to two. One if the Packers lose on Thanksgiving to the Lions, but I doubt that’ll happen. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/583 "2009-11-23T01:06:39Z")
Lions are hot. (see what passes for hot in Detroit) I bet the Thanksgiving Day game is blacked out . Stafford’s shoulder did not look good in the last series. He was holding it at his side like it was broken. But he went back in and threw the winning TD. That should make the team very happy. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/584 "2009-11-23T01:08:20Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m heartened that the Packers played a good game (excepting that special teams and the late defensive laxitude). They did a lot of quick passes and ran the ball extremely well, just as I’ve been crying for for the last 3 weeks. And the defense was very good, at least until it quit being aggressive and played on it’s heels. Altogether, a good game, which has me in good spirits. Bring on the Lions!!! The first half was a demonstration of how well the Packers can play if they run the ball, commit few penalties, and protect Rodgers. Basically, unstoppable. The second half, more penalties, not as much protection. I don’t think the injuries matterd. Basically they stopped covering Vernon Davis. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/585 "2009-11-23T01:42:29Z")
I’m really torn about tonights game. On one hand, I want the Eagles to lose because it helps the Packers in the wildcard hunt. On the other, I want the Bears to lose because, well, they’re the Bears. Too bad they can’t both lose. But in the end, the Eagles are a much bigger threat than the Bears, so _gulp_ Go Bears!!! ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/586 "2009-11-23T02:33:31Z")
Lots of offensive ineptitude on display on NBC right now. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/587 "2009-11-23T02:36:43Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Lots of offensive ineptitude on display on NBC right now. With one carry, Kahlil Bell has more yards than Forte did in 7 out of 9 games this year. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/588 "2009-11-23T02:38:39Z")
Was he the guy that ripped off the long one? I knew when he was knocked out bounds at the ten yard line that the Bears would only get three points. But that was a hell of a good run. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/589 "2009-11-23T02:49:25Z")
His first ever NFL carry. ---
**Author:** ![Ring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Ring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ring)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/590 "2009-11-23T04:04:05Z")
Anybody have any theories why Cutler has gone from so good to so bad. He’s already missed 2 wide open touchdowns passes for God’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/591 "2009-11-23T04:32:33Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > Anybody have any theories why Cutler has gone from so good to so bad. He’s already missed 2 wide open touchdowns passes for God’s sake. Three ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/592 "2009-11-23T04:33:47Z")
Fucking Bears. At least I can revel in the pain of Bears’ fans. **Omni** , aren’t you back from the glorious Packers game yet? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/593 "2009-11-23T04:51:24Z")
Another ridculously efficient performance from Favre today. 4TDs, and only 3 incomplete passes. He currently has the highest passer rating in the NFL, which is unusual for him, even in his good years. MVP! MVP! MVP! > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The first half was a demonstration of how well the Packers can play if they run the ball, commit few penalties, and protect Rodgers. Basically, unstoppable. Against San Fancisco. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/594 "2009-11-23T04:55:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Against San Fancisco. At home against San Francisco. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/595 "2009-11-23T14:25:55Z")
> [@Ring](#): > > Anybody have any theories why Cutler has gone from so good to so bad. He’s already missed 2 wide open touchdowns passes for God’s sake. Oh, that’s easy. His offensive line sucks, his team can’t run the ball and he doesn’t have Brandon Marshall around to vacuum up every ball thrown in his general vicinity. The Bears’ wideouts are all _tiny little men_, and none of them have Steve Smith’s leaping ability. If they get separation, well, great, but if they don’t, Cutler has tiny little windows to fit passes into and he’s just not very accurate. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Another ridculously efficient performance from Favre today. 4TDs, and only 3 incomplete passes. He currently has the highest passer rating in the NFL, which is unusual for him, even in his good years. > > MVP! MVP! MVP! There’s no way anybody playing on the same offense as Adrian Peterson wins the MVP. No matter how well Favre is doing, every defense is still going to scheme to stop the other guy. > [@](#): > > Against San Fancisco. The same San Francisco team that should have knocked off your 8-1 Vikings, as I recall. In Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/596 "2009-11-23T14:29:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The same San Francisco team that should have knocked off your 8-1 Vikings, as I recall. In Minnesota. …but didn’t, thanks to an absolutely incredible throw on the run from league MVP front-runner Brett Favre. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/597 "2009-11-23T14:37:23Z")
_Front-runner_? There are two quarterbacks playing for undefeated teams with equally good numbers that don’t have the league’s best running back and offensive line. Or the Vikings defense, which is ranked ahead of both the Colts and Saints defenses. Favre has a terrific touchdown to interception ratio and is playing very, very well. He is not in any way the league’s most valuable player. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/598 "2009-11-23T14:50:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > _Front-runner_? Yes, _front-runner_. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There are two quarterbacks playing for undefeated teams with equally good numbers Both Manning and Brees have thrown 6 more interceptions than Favre. That’s 6 extra possessions for the other team. Not very valuable. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > that don’t have the league’s best running back One could make compelling arguments for Chris Johnson and Steven Jackson, who both play on inferior teams with inferior passing games, yet have more yards than AP. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > and offensive line. Where can one view these rankings? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Favre has a terrific touchdown to interception ratio and is playing very, very well. He is not in any way the league’s most valuable player. This + intangibles + my opinion makes him the front-runner. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/599 "2009-11-23T14:52:43Z")
He’s got a better QB rating than the other two, and his elevation of the Vikings from middle of the pack to elite status is obvious for all to see. He’s absolutely in the discussion, and it’s not like those other teams are both going to go 16-0. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/600 "2009-11-23T15:05:30Z")
> [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > Both Manning and Brees have thrown 6 more interceptions than Favre. That’s 6 extra possessions for the other team. Not very valuable. They’ve also thrown for ~700 and ~300 yards more than Favre, or an entire game or two’s production. That’s pretty valuable. > [@](#): > > One could make compelling arguments for Chris Johnson and Steven Jackson, who both play on inferior teams with inferior passing games, yet have more yards than AP. Even assuming that one made such a case, neither Johnson nor Jackson play for the Saints or Colts. > [@](#): > > Where can one view these rankings? > [@](#): > > This + intangibles + my opinion makes him the front-runner. Where can one view Favre’s intangibles ranking? > [@](#): > > He’s got a better QB rating than the other two, and his elevation of the Vikings from middle of the pack to elite status is obvious for all to see. He’s absolutely in the discussion, and it’s not like those other teams are both going to go 16-0. Regardless of whether those other teams go 16-0, at least one is likely to finish with a better record than the Vikings. You still have a road game at Arizona, plus games against Cincinnati (bet you didn’t think _that_ would be a worry) and the Giants. Plus two against the Bears, who aren’t very good but aren’t dog spit. The Colts, by contrast, have two games left against +.500 opponents - the Broncos, who have run out of smoke and mirrors, and the less than terrifying Jaguars. The Saints play the Pats and Cowboys at home, plus the Bucs, Panthers, Falcons and Redskins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=31)