# Season Long NFC North Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 1, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514 "2009-09-01T17:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/881 "2009-12-15T01:23:19Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > It is interesting looking at the stats for the Cincy v Minny game that the numbers aren’t that different. It’s not like anyone for the Vikings had a career day, and it’s not like the Bengals were playing that badly. Favre’s numbers are quite pedestrian, though better than Palmer’s (Palmer obviously had even less success down the field than Favre). To me, the telling stat is that AP and CB have roughly the same amount of yards, but CB managed half of his on one run, while AP never went more than 15 in a chunk. That, combined with some better efficiency by the Vikings in the air, and a stupid, stupid mistake at the end of the first half, kind of sums it up. > > Bengals had best get a better performance out of the offense next week. It’s not sewn up yet! > > Oh, and congratulations to the Packers, who beat the Bears, who did not deserve to win. 😃 > [@DragonAsh](#): > > I thought there were two key stats: First, Favre had over double the number of yards passing with only two more receptions - and every every pass catcher for the Vikings had at least one play of over 12 yards, with three players had long catches of at least 19 yards. Palmer - 15 completions but only 94 yards? That tells me that Palmer wasn’t getting time to set up and look deep. The Vikings only got one sack (Favre got sacked twice), and Palmer didn’t throw an INT (while Favre threw one) - but there’s an aspect of the game that doesn’t show up in the numbers - Palmer was taking quite 3-step drops and only getting short compeletions, rather than face the pass rush. With Winfield back shoring up the corners, the Bengals weren’t able to move the chains with yards after the catch. And that really shows up in first downs: 21 for Vikings, only 13 for Bengals. > > I thought the refs had a horrible game. Everyone’s noting the Bengals penalties, but overlooking the fact that the Vikings had 9 pentalites for 70 yards as well. And several of the penalties looked pretty dubious. I pretty much agree on both counts. The Svengalis certainly didn’t (and haven’t been) doing themselves any favors with their eleven penalties (and we’ve had nine a game in the last three before that one), and it is painfully obvious to me that the loss of Chris Henry is a gaping hole in the Bengals pass offense. Laugh if you want to, but Henry is the only wideout we have that has 4.5 speed, is 6’5" and can go up and get the ball. He demands attention which draws defenders away from Chad and Coles (whom was conspicuously absent against the Vikes). The Bengals are piling up injuries on defense, too. They need to rectify their issues or they will back their way into the playoffs and lose in the first game. Wait, this _isn’t_ the “season long AFCNorth thread”? Shit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/882 "2009-12-21T16:28:23Z")
What?! Week 15 goes by and nobody wants to talk about the NFC north? Could that have something to do with them going 0 for 4 this week? Detroit put up a good effort but falls short. Chicago gets pounded. Division winning Vikings forget to show up to the game. Packers looked decent on offense buy couldn’t muster enough on defense to stop a last second Pittsburgh drive and score. If I had to send one of these teams into the playoffs right now to represent the NFC north it may have to be the Packers. All-Day AP? Favre? Vikes O’line? Calf ropin’ Jared Allen? Hellooooooo?? McFly??? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/883 "2009-12-21T16:32:42Z")
I guess it’s worth mentioning that the Vikings did clinch the division title yesterday. Actually Ben Roethlisberger clinched it for them ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/884 "2009-12-21T16:42:13Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > What?! Week 15 goes by and nobody wants to talk about the NFC north? > > Could that have something to do with them going 0 for 4 this week? I posted my thoughts on the Packer game in another thread, but I could have here. But making fun of Cutler, Forte, and the Bears after yet another embarrassing loss seems a bit … ungentlemanly. And the Vikings loss, while very enjoyable, doesn’t mean much at this point. I did enjoy the Favre v. Childress theater, but it’s too early to predict the Vikings’ demise. And the Lions… well, they’re the Lions. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/885 "2009-12-21T16:49:36Z")
Packer game wasn’t on TV here, thanks to the snowstorm delaying the start of the Bear game. As it turns out, I’m glad it wasn’t…I went to see an early-evening showing of Avatar instead, and thus, didn’t have to live through the end of that game in real time. 😛 I guess I’m not surprised by how it turned out, though I was surprised at just how well Pittsburgh was able to throw the ball against a supposedly-good pass defense. I suspected that the Steelers would come out mad, and want to put forth a better effort than they had in recent weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/886 "2009-12-21T16:53:41Z")
Two last second passes could have changed the fate of the NFC North: Favre’s winning throw against the Niners and Big Bens last second winner against the Packers. Those two throws go the other way and the NFC North is tied (albeit with the tie-breeaker to the Vikes). I am not as concerned about the Packers loss, as it doesn’t affect our palyoff chances much, as I am about the way the defense played. We couldn’t get one stop on the final drive? Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/887 "2009-12-21T16:55:17Z")
Brett Favre is looking [del]pretty damn good[/del] every bit his age, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/888 "2009-12-21T16:57:52Z")
Favre looked fine last night, actually. He wasn’t the problem. His O-line was. That and the slick field and dropped passes. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/889 "2009-12-21T17:04:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Favre looked fine last night, actually. He wasn’t the problem. His O-line was. That and the slick field and dropped passes. That Shiancoe drop was a deflating killer. Game is still in reach. No huddle offense starts a bit of a rhythm, 40 yr old QB breaks two tackles, spins out, rolls left, gets hit as he throws, puts the ball right on his number for what should have been a first down. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/890 "2009-12-21T17:07:26Z")
That’s one of the exact drops I was thinking of. Another was the screen to AP with room to run, but he slipped and fell down on that watered turf. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/891 "2009-12-21T17:19:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > of. Another was the screen to AP with room to run, but he slipped and fell down on that watered turf. What’s up with that, anyway? Every single game they play outside, they slip around like it’s an ice rink. I’d think the players would check out the turf out a bit, and prepare accordingly. I didn’t see any Carolina players slipping around, but AP, Winfield, Favre, etc all looked like they were on roller skates. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/892 "2009-12-21T17:25:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Favre looked fine last night, actually. He wasn’t the problem. His O-line was. That and the slick field and dropped passes. Without Peterson’s run after catch of the screen play in the 4th quarter for 60+ yards, Favre’s stats were 16 for 26 for 163 yards and one stupid throw for an interception in the end zone. If that’s “fine”, I’d like to introduce you to Trent Dilfer, the “finest” quarterback ever. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/893 "2009-12-21T17:25:55Z")
They showed Favre switching from molded cleats to spiky ones during the first quarter. Players generally don’t like to wear long cleats unless absolutely necessary because it increases the risk of injury. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/894 "2009-12-21T17:32:55Z")
He wasn’t making bad throws, though. Did you watch the game? He was getting no protection, had to throw balls away, and threw balls on the money that were dropped. He also barely had the ball, was getting nothing from the run game, had a missed FG from Longwell after getting the Vikings well within range, had the defense fail (as is their wont) to just fall on a fumble instead of trying to pick it up and run it, and Antoine Winfield had about the worst game of his life. Favre was not the reason the Vikings lost. He was about the only thing that _didn’t_ suck. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/895 "2009-12-21T17:47:17Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Without Peterson’s run after catch of the screen play in the 4th quarter for 60+ yards, Favre’s stats were 16 for 26 for 163 yards and one stupid throw for an interception in the end zone. If that’s “fine”, I’d like to introduce you to Trent Dilfer, the “finest” quarterback ever. Trent Dilfer led his team to a Super Bowl victory. That’s all we’re asking of Favre. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/896 "2009-12-21T17:55:37Z")
Dilfer didn’t lead his team. He just didn’t screw it up. He threw for 153 yards and a score in the Super Bowl, which was pretty representative of his play during that entire season and the playoffs. Favre, on the other hand, is going to have to _win_ some games for the Vikings to make the Super Bowl. They had pretty Dilfer-esque quarterback play last year, with largely the same roster, and look how that turned out. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/897 "2009-12-21T18:06:11Z")
We _wished_ we had a Dilfer-esque QB last year. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/898 "2009-12-21T18:19:11Z")
Tarvaris Jackson threw for ~1,000 yards last year, with 9 touchdowns and 2 picks. Frerotte threw for ~2,100 yards with, with 12 touchdowns and 15 picks. Put them together and you’ve got 3,100 yards with 21 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. In half a regular season as the Ravens’ starter in 2000 (plus relief appearances in three other games), Trent Dilfer threw for 1502 yards, with 12 touchdowns and 11 picks. Your quarterback play last year couldn’t have been any more Dilferesque if Dilfer had actually been your quarterback. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/899 "2009-12-21T18:58:26Z")
I can’t really fault Favre for throwing that last interception. It wasn’t a “There goes Favre being careless” moment. It was a desperation play to try to get them back into the game in the final minutes. If it was caught for a TD then they had a chance. If it’s intercepted they lose the game. If he doesn’t throw it they lose the game. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/900 "2009-12-21T19:24:34Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I can’t really fault Favre for throwing that last interception. It wasn’t a “There goes Favre being careless” moment. It was a desperation play to try to get them back into the game in the final minutes. If it was caught for a TD then they had a chance. If it’s intercepted they lose the game. If he doesn’t throw it they lose the game. It was on first down and 10 at the opponents’ 16, and it was a truly stupid throw to a guy who was clearly covered. I realize it wasn’t a game loser because they were already pretty far behind, but it was a very poor, very forced throw that comes from Favre when he’s feeling pressured to win on his own. Trust me, after decades as a Packer fan, I’ve heard every way imaginable to downplay Favre’s interceptions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=46)