# Season Long NFC North Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 1, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514 "2009-09-01T17:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1061 "2010-01-11T15:27:23Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I flat out don’t believe you. Ellis Dee is cynical of the Cynic. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1062 "2010-01-11T15:28:16Z")
> [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > Thanks. From the YouTube video above, I (Vikings fan) saw a pretty decent facemask after the ball was knocked loose by Adams. Seems to me the Cardinals should have the ball around the GB 32 or so. Given that, I put the Cards’ chance of scoring at 92%. It occured before the change of possession, though, so it would have been 1st down Packers around the 32. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1063 "2010-01-11T15:28:21Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I flat out don’t believe you. Look it up. If the ball changes possession, you are allowed to treat the quarterback as a defender and knock him on his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1064 "2010-01-11T15:29:30Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > It occured before the change of possession, though No, it didn’t. As a matter of fact, it didn’t occur at all, but the incidental contact came after the fumble. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1065 "2010-01-11T15:30:26Z")
You are wrong on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1066 "2010-01-11T15:31:48Z")
You wish. Just accept the loss. Your boy choked. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1067 "2010-01-11T15:33:50Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > It occured before the change of possession, though, so it would have been 1st down Packers around the 32. This jives with me. Anybody got a copy of the rulebook to verify? ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1068 "2010-01-11T15:34:11Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I agree that it’s a case where Packers often get a completely bogus game-changing penalty. I can see where their fans might now feel like it’s an entitlement. But you are wrong that it is called “every time.” It wasn’t called when the Bears did it to Peterson, for example, and that was an actual hand-on-the-facemask, which this isn’t. Now, hang on a second. I think that the penalty should not have been called, because in general I’m in favor of letting the players determine the outcome of the game and I don’t think that what happened affected the way the play turned out. The Cardinals won, they deserved to win, the end. But. Please view this youtube clip. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lZCbmc0IIM4/hqdefault.jpg "Aaron Rodgers nearly gets his facemask ripped off on National TV and Nobody Notices") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZCbmc0IIM4) Pause the clip at 0:38. Where is Mike Adams’ right hand, if not gripping the front of Aaron Rodgers’ facemask? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1069 "2010-01-11T15:35:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You wish. Just accept the loss. Your boy choked. I don’t give a fuck about Aaron Rodgers or the Packers. I’m a Giants fan. When it comes to last night’s game, unlike you I’m an objective observer. Packers fans really can’t complain too much because their defense was so shitty they really didn’t deserve to win. But I can complain for them, because they really did get screwed by the officials. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1070 "2010-01-11T15:36:26Z")
Incidental contact. Not a penalty. If the Packers got the benefit of the exact same non-call, Packer fans would all be ridiculing any notion that it was a penalty. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1071 "2010-01-11T15:36:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You wish. Just accept the loss. Your boy choked. Jeez, man - that’s harsh and simply not true. As a fellow Vikings fan I don’t approve of this comment. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1072 "2010-01-11T15:38:17Z")
I didn’t see any of you same people complaining when Adrian Peterson got his head yanked sideways on that game-deciding fumble against the Bears, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1073 "2010-01-11T15:38:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Incidental contact. Not a penalty. > > If the Packers got the benefit of the exact same non-call, Packer fans would all be ridiculing any notion that it was a penalty. As I have clearly stated multiple times, I don’t think it should be a penalty. But that’s how the pussified NFL of today calls them. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1074 "2010-01-11T15:39:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I didn’t see any of you same people complaining when Adrian Peterson got his head yanked sideways on that game-deciding fumble against the Bears, by the way. He’s not a fucking quarterback. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1075 "2010-01-11T15:40:16Z")
> [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > Jeez, man - that’s harsh and simply not true. As a fellow Vikings fan I don’t approve of this comment. Well, rather Rodgers choked is a matter of opinion, but it’s definitely true that Packer fans need to accept the loss and quit trying to blame the officials. If you listen to Packer fans, they’ve never lost a game fair and square. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1076 "2010-01-11T15:41:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > He’s not a fucking quarterback. Duh. A facemask is a facemask. One could argue that Peterson’s facemask helped cause the fumble while Rodgers’ clearly occurred after the fumble. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1077 "2010-01-11T15:44:02Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > He’s not a fucking quarterback. Duh. How is this remotely relevant? Are you under some impression that the facemask penalty only applies to quarterbacks? And after the quarterback drops the ball, he becomes just another defender anyway. You are allowed to block them. It’s not a penalty to do so. Quarterbacks lose their ordinary roughing protections after a turnover. They become just another swinging dick on the field. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1078 "2010-01-11T15:47:41Z")
It’s all irrelevent because the video shows there was no facemask. The defender’s hand was on Rodgers shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1079 "2010-01-11T15:50:31Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > It’s all irrelevent because the video shows there was no facemask. The defender’s hand was on Rodgers shoulder. See my post above. Are you saying that at 0:38, Mike Adams’ right hand is on Aaron Rodger’s _shoulder pad_? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1080 "2010-01-11T15:50:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You wish. Just accept the loss. Your boy choked. This is the dumbest damn thing you’ve said all week. He led his team back from behind like four times in that game, including twice (three times?) in the fourth quarter. In what possible sense did he choke? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=55)