# Season Long NFC North Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 1, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514 "2009-09-01T17:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1101 "2010-01-11T16:32:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That goes extra for the Packers, who got to play a Cardinals team that was missing one of the five best wide receivers in the league. I think that one balances out a bit, given that the Packers have been missing one of the game’s best cornerbacks since November…and then, played most of the second half without one of the better safeties, as well. It was clear to me that Warner found holes in the Packer secondary, especially over the middle (due to injuries, or scheme, or whatever), and exploited them. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1102 "2010-01-11T16:33:24Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > That’s the illogical, ad hominem nonsense I don’t get. And leave my butt out of it. I don’t see why I get censured and you can prattle off with your junior high locker room rules of masculinity and pseudo-swears unchecked. Yes, I agree, you clearly do not get it. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1103 "2010-01-11T16:39:00Z")
No, I don’t get your snide, immature little macho attitude, especially when you try to play it both ways. “It’s unmanly to say the refs cost us that game, so I’m not saying they cost us the game, but man, they kinda cost us that game.” And you talk about manning up, sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1104 "2010-01-11T16:39:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I was the one who brought it up, and only as a question 'cause I missed the play. I’m neither a Packer fan nor blaming their loss on it. In a game where the defenses gave up 40+ points each, neither team can blame anything on a bad call, no matter how egregious - if you had forced a goddamn punt one time, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. The Packers did force a punt. One. All game. Pretty sad. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1105 "2010-01-11T16:40:41Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > No, I don’t get your snide, immature little macho attitude, especially when you try to play it both ways. “It’s unmanly to say the refs cost us that game, so I’m not saying they cost us the game, but man, they kinda cost us that game.” And you talk about manning up, sheesh. Read a little more closely and you’ll discover that the Packers are not, in fact, my team. I was an impartial observer to that game. That was my whole point that you clearly did not get. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1106 "2010-01-11T16:45:20Z")
I am not going to gripe about the calls either. Kenobi basically laid it out. The defense and Warner’s scalpel-like precision, along with a bad start killed us. EOS. I just ignore Dio’s comments, they are obviously meant to rile. He is no mood to have an honest discussion, he just wants to push buttons. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1107 "2010-01-11T16:47:32Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Read a little more closely and you’ll discover that the Packers are not, in fact, my team. I was an impartial observer to that game. > > That was my whole point that you clearly did not get. Your snide, immature attitude about manliness is still snide and immature, nothing but a lot of blather, completely pointless, lowers the discussion to the kind that drunk guys have at bars, as is inexcusable. Which you obviously do not get. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1108 "2010-01-11T16:55:00Z")
After watching the video, I think it was a face mask. I can see how the official missed it, as it almost looks like Rodger’s head was just following the ball, rather than being pulled. On the other hand, when a quarterback holds the ball for more than 10 seconds like that, I think they should be fair game for anything. You aren’t supposed to kill the clock in the pocket. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1109 "2010-01-11T16:57:54Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Your snide, immature attitude about manliness is still snide and immature, nothing but a lot of blather, completely pointless, lowers the discussion to the kind that drunk guys have at bars, as is inexcusable. > > Which you obviously do not get. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1110 "2010-01-11T16:58:25Z")
To be fair, I can understand disgust with fans who blame every loss on the refs and summon up a bunch of ghost should’ve-called penalties. But I think it’s fair to comment on an obvious reffing mistake that also obviously makes a huge difference in the game. And I definitely don’t think that introducing memes of manliness make for a more fruitful discussion. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1111 "2010-01-11T16:58:30Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > On the other hand, when a quarterback holds the ball for more than 10 seconds like that, I think they should be fair game for anything. You aren’t supposed to kill the clock in the pocket. While Rodgers has gotten grief (and rightly so) for holding onto the ball too long…this was a play in which it was justified. It was 3rd down, and if they don’t convert, the game is likely over anyway. He knew he had to get a first down on _that_ play. Should he have moved out of the pocket? Possibly, though the pressure was coming from his right side, and that’s where he usually seems to flush to, so it might not have been possible. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1112 "2010-01-11T16:59:33Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yep, continued rhetorical excellence. Keep up the good work, Socrates. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1113 "2010-01-11T17:01:18Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > To be fair, I can understand disgust with fans who blame every loss on the refs and summon up a bunch of ghost should’ve-called penalties. But I think it’s fair to comment on an obvious reffing mistake that also obviously makes a huge difference in the game. And I definitely don’t think that introducing memes of manliness make for a more fruitful discussion. Absolutely agreed, 100%. However, you can’t really complain about your own team getting jobbed without leaving yourself open to ridicule on the grounds that so many fans do exactly what you describe. For example, how the whole “Harrison gets held on every play” complaint of the Steelers fans on the board has become such a delicious source of mockery. Complaining about the officials in a game between teams you don’t care about makes you immune from that accusation. The fact that you’re so butthurt by this explanation is fantastically entertaining, by the way. EDIT: That “ha ha ha” was a [post=11978251]direct quote from you[/post]. An example, no doubt, of the stunning intellectual discourse whose level I was reducing. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1114 "2010-01-11T17:05:57Z")
Mine was simply a reaction to what happened in the game. It wasn’t a discussion or an argument. It was just my response in real time. It wasn’t directed at anyone and sure as hell didn’t call them girly men. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1115 "2010-01-11T17:08:41Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > and sure as hell didn’t call them girly men. The only place I called anyone a girlyman is in your fevered imagination. Please stop projecting your issues onto me. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1116 "2010-01-11T17:09:12Z")
OK, given “the facts” as I see them: - Rodgers was facemasked (15-yd variety) after he fumbled yet before the ball was recovered by Dansby. Can anyone tell me for sure, from the rulebook, that the Packers should have gotten the ball back? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1117 "2010-01-11T17:15:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I know you’re still butthurt about this from a couple weeks ago, but I think I know what the difference is. It is \*\*unmanly \*\*to complain about bad calls adversely affecting _your_ team. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1118 "2010-01-11T17:17:42Z")
> [@unwashed\_brain](#): > > OK, given “the facts” as I see them: > > - Rodgers was facemasked (15-yd variety) after he fumbled yet before the ball was recovered by Dansby. > > Can anyone tell me for sure, from the rulebook, that the Packers should have gotten the ball back? I don’t have the rulebook, but it seems clear that the ball is still considered the Packers unitl the Cardinals recover it. Therefore any facemask call would have resulted in the Packers maintaining possesion. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1119 "2010-01-11T17:23:52Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I don’t have the rulebook C-. Follows directions poorly…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514/1120 "2010-01-11T19:38:17Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] know you’re still butthurt about this from a couple weeks ago, but I think I know what the difference is. [/QUOTE] > [@cricetus](#): > > Your snide, immature attitude about manliness is still snide and immature, nothing but a lot of blather, completely pointless, lowers the discussion to the kind that drunk guys have at bars, as is inexcusable. Insults are not acceptable. I am warning you both to simmer down. I do understand a little trash talk, but we’re not tolerating direct insults. **Ellen Cherry Game Room Moderator** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/season-long-nfc-north-discussion-thread/508514.md?page=57)