# Seat belt laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2000, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896 "2000-04-05T05:31:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/21 "2000-04-06T20:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The consumer? Well, he now pays more for each car, gets fined if he does not use the seat belt, and loses a little bit more of his freedom. What “freedom” did you lose? The freedom to be a complete moron? Driving without a seat belt is just plain stupid. Riding a motorcycle without a helmet is irrefutably moronic. If you do these things, you’re demonstrating only that you lack the basic intelligence to take care of yourself. I have a lot of respect for conservatives when they step up and and defend _real_ traditional values: free speech, due process, fourth, fifth and sixth amendment rights. I even consider spirited defense of the second amendment respectable (if I do happen to disagree). But to all you idiots out there whining about the government taking away your right to be a clueless dumbass: Cry me a river. I have absolutely no sympathy towards your position. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/22 "2000-04-06T20:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Centerline** : > > We can become a highly robotic and REALLY SAFE society. My life can become one really constricted path. Imagine, one day our brains can be implanted with a computer chip that guide our every move and stop us from our own uneducated stupidity. There will be no risks, sit back and enjoy! I suppose they call them “reactionaries” because they take every situation to its illogical, fanatical extreme, right? :rolleyes: The robot formerly known as the human Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, [Asketh the damn Priest Guy!](http://www.askjesus.org/ask.cgi?http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Centerline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Centerline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Centerline)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2000, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/23 "2000-04-06T20:48:00Z")
“Driving without a seat belt is just plain stupid. Riding a motorcycle without a helmet is irrefutably moronic. If you do these things, you’re demonstrating only that you lack the basic intelligence to take care of yourself.” All right, in case you did not notice, I AM agreeing that we should wear seat belts and helmets. In fact, I always did that, even before these laws are on the books. My only point is whether we should be EDUCATED to do so, or criminally mandated to do so. Anyway, relax folks, I hope there IS a small point in there somewhere! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a5b964/32.png) [@Red\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/24 "2000-04-07T23:55:00Z")
YES, not wearing a seatbelt is stupid. YES, it saves lives, BUT… You, the goverment or anyone else should NOT make me do it. Or even make me seatbelt my kids (I have none but if I did, I would seatbelt them). Same goes for the helmet law. Stay out of my life. I don’t want you there! Sorry if this sounds flamy but this issue really gets me. ---
**Author:** ![Lagged2Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ac8455/32.png) [@Lagged2Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lagged2Death)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/25 "2000-04-08T00:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by David, God of Frogs: > **…why are there laws that make you wear seat belts? There is no possible way you could hurt anyone else by not wearing one, and it is your right to put yourself at risk. You’re the only person being affected by it.** If I fail to wear a seat belt and I am horribly injured, you’re the one who ends up paying for my hospital stay (through increased insurance premiums for everyone) and maybe even my entire income thereafter, if I can no longer earn a living (through government assistance of one form or another, and thus higher taxes for everyone). Sure, the economic impact of my paralysis on you personally is very small. But it’s real. I think that a better reason for requiring seat belts, though, is to force parents to buckle their children up. The kid doesn’t have enough sense to do the right thing on his or her own. If the parent doesn’t buckle up, the kid usually won’t either. In that case, Mom or Dad’s seat belt use is certainly effecting someone else. I’ve often thought that in a rational world, seat belts would not be required, but it would be agreed that in the event of an accident, a person who was not wearing one would forfeit insurance payments, government benefits, etc. After all, if you care so little for your own personal safety, why should anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/26 "2000-04-08T00:28:00Z")
**DS Young** sed: > [@](#): > > Society would be best advised to stop trying to save the genes of those so stupid they would otherwise remove themselves from the gene pool. > Keeping children safe is a great idea. Keeping those too stupid to save themselves safe is not. The answer to that, and to **Freedom** ’s tongue-in-cheek post, and others, is this: Sometimes they don’t die. A lot of times actually. If I knew for absolute certain that every idiot would hurt himself and ONLY himself when he did something stupid, I’d be violently opposed to all anti-stupidity legislation. But that’s about as likely as the pie-in-the-sky libertarian fantasy of a government that doesn’t interfere in anyone’s life. Sh’ya, right. Unfortunately, the losers who don’t manage to completely kill themselves end up in ICU sucking oxygen and eating through an IV tube. And I get to pay for it, however indirectly. Hmph. No thanks. -andros- ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/27 "2000-04-08T00:29:00Z")
IOW, dammit, what **Lagged** said. I gotta stop taking calls in the middle of composing posts. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2000, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/28 "2000-04-08T00:40:00Z")
What about the wrecks in which the seatbelt kills you? What about the people that have to be fed through a tube because they were wearing their seatbelt and didnt die? If you dont want to pay for healthcare going up then be against healthcare 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/29 "2000-04-07T03:19:00Z")
Notthemama I guess I should have asked a Mailman. The Information that I shared was Told to me by the DOT lady that rode with me when I took my CDL. I forgot to renew my licence and had to take the test again. When she got into the truck she just sat there. I said something about her putting on her seatbelt and she said that they are not required to . She said Mailmen weren’t required to either. I guess you can’t trust anyone nowadays. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Centerline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Centerline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Centerline)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/30 "2000-04-07T14:01:00Z")
“What “freedom” did you lose? The freedom to be a complete moron?” I think we all would do well to defend the freedom of any moron to be so. At the end of the day, if we look into the mirror, we may find a need for a bit of that freedom ourselves. “If I fail to wear a seat belt and I am horribly injured, you’re the one who ends up paying for my hospital stay…” I hate to think that this whole debate comes down to one of economics. We pay for many things to create a greater society. But I don’t want to pay with my personal freedom. “I think that a better reason for requiring seat belts, though, is to force parents to buckle their children up…” EDUCATION! Anyway, I think I have stirred this pot…[/fading] ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/31 "2000-04-07T16:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Red 2** : > > You, the goverment or anyone else should NOT make me do it. If anyone knows, is not wearing a seatbelt a pull-over-able offense yet? Last time I checked in Pennsylvania you could only get fined (a small fine, at that, not an arrestable offense) if you were pulled over for another reason, but I think New Jersey just changed it to be its own offense. So no one will send you to jail for not wearing a seatbelt, but you would have to pay a fine. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, [Asketh the damn Priest Guy!](http://www.askjesus.org/ask.cgi?http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/32 "2000-04-07T16:47:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Asmodean** : > > What about the wrecks in which the seatbelt kills you? What about the people that have to be fed through a tube because they were wearing their seatbelt and didnt die? Dude, you are **so** sketchy. The overwhelming majority of accident victims are **saved** by seatbelts, not killed by them. Given the chances, I’ll wear mine, thank you. My grandmother refused to wear her seatbelt because she had this fear if she went off a bridge she wouldn’t be able to get the seatbelt off and she’d drown. Then I pointed out to her that in all the places we drive her we never _once_ cross a body of water. She wears her seatbelt now. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) (or, if you prefer the Jesusfied version, [Asketh the damn Priest Guy!](http://www.askjesus.org/ask.cgi?http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html)) ---
**Author:** ![SingleDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SingleDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleDad)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/33 "2000-04-07T16:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I think we all would do well to defend the freedom of any moron to be so. At the end of the day, if we look into the mirror, we may find a need for a bit of that freedom ourselves. I for one do _not_ value my freedom to be a moron, any more than I would value my freedom to steal from people or kill them. If I am inadvertently doing something moronic, then I welcome the correction from my society. It’s not like if I do something stupid I’m going to be taken out back and shot. I get a ticket, and if I have any sense at all I’ll say “Doh!” and correct my behavior. Note that I do separate “moronic” behavior from “risky” behavior. Moronic behavior is one with high risk and little or no reward. There’s no positive benefit in _not_ wearing a seat belt in a car or a helmet on a motorcycle, and the risk of death or injury is very high. In contrast, the entertainment value of skydiving (or so I’m assured by its proponents) is high enough that the activity can’t be considered irrebuttably stupid. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/34 "2000-04-07T19:16:00Z")
Esprix wrote: > [@](#): > > Simple - we wait for the Vorlons and the Shadows to start meddling in the affairs of the universe, Get the hell out of our galaxy! ---
**Author:** ![Centerline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Centerline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Centerline)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896/35 "2000-04-07T19:19:00Z")
Main Entry: mo·ron Pronunciation: 'mOr-"än, 'mor- Function: noun Etymology: irregular from Greek mOros foolish, stupid Date: 1910 1 : a mentally retarded person who has a potential mental age of between 8 and 12 years and is capable of doing routine work under supervision 2 : a very stupid person - mo·ron·ic /m&-'rä-nik, mo-/ adjective - mo·ron·i·cal·ly /-ni-k(&-)lE/ adverb - mo·ron·ism /'mOr-"ä-"ni-z&m, 'mor-/ noun - mo·ron·i·ty /m&-'rä-n&-tE, mo-/ noun Hmmm…I guess we are not talking about MORONs now. The state should treat now all citizens as children. Don’t do that…CRACK!..listen to me…POP!..I said pay attention…WHAP! I doubt if I only do things based on risk/reward. From my point of view I may just want to do certain things, even if you don’t agree. If not 1, then I guess now we should legislate that only intelligent persons (not 2) can have freedom based on some arbitrary standard. This, of course, can be another thread entirely… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seat-belt-laws/17896.md?page=1)