# Seattle Mazda drivers can't change their radios off of KUOW **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** racing-auto-boat\ **Created:** [February 9, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162 "2022-02-09T16:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/21 "2022-02-10T14:56:25Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s a pretty dumb software bug. But what’s even dumber it that it requires making a service appointment to fix, and apparently a hardware swap. A lot of people don’t seem to like over-the-air updates for their car… but this is the alternative. Huh? Since it requires new hardware then it _can’t_ be done with an over-the-air update. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/22 "2022-02-10T15:11:27Z")
I presume if were designed with over-the-air updates in mind, it wouldn’t have been coded in hardware in the first place. (Right, is that what’s happening? I’m not a computer expert, but I assume the wonky code is located somewhere non-writable, as opposed to some flashable firmware or something. Anybody help me out on this detail?) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/23 "2022-02-10T23:00:20Z")
Guess I’ll keep my 2016 CX-5 outta there. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/24 "2022-02-10T23:02:42Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Since it requires new hardware then it _can’t_ be done with an over-the-air update. @Dr.Strangelove was saying that it _could_ more sensibly have been designed for over-the-air updates, but people don’t want that. And this is the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/25 "2022-02-10T23:10:06Z")
Exactly. At some level, I get the distaste for OTA updates–what if they make things worse? Doesn’t this just allow them to write buggier code in the first place? Etc. Those arguments aren’t completely wrong, but the fact is that modern software stacks are too complicated these days to get perfect at the outset. Having to replace a hardware module–or even having a service appointment at all–is a dumb way to fix the inevitable bugs. I’ve seen some cases where end users could load a USB stick with a new firmware to load into their device. That’s not too bad an alternative, and certainly better than the apparent situation here. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/26 "2022-02-10T23:11:42Z")
Here’s where I pull my sexagenarian card and ask exactly who decided we wanted _radio_ that needs firmware updates. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/27 "2022-02-10T23:22:01Z")
I have an LG OLED TV that runs WebOS, which is their Linux-based operating system. Yesterday it updated the software and after I was required to accept the user agreement. Something of a novelty to have to do so to watch TV. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/28 "2022-02-10T23:22:38Z")
Your radio has been running software since the 80s. RDS (Radio Data System) is the standard for sending you digital information like song titles and station names alongside analog FM broadcasts. It’s been around since 1984. The bug here is about HD radio, which gives extra metainformation (like pictures) due to the improved bandwidth, but the same _kind_ of bug could have been around for decades. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/29 "2022-02-10T23:41:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Obviously there’s a conspiracy to force Mazda owners to be indoctrinated by public radio. As a Mazda owner, I don’t mind. I listen to MPR’s [**news**](https://www.mprnews.org/) station about half the time and switch to **[The Current](https://www.thecurrent.org/)** (also MPR) the other half. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/30 "2022-02-11T01:19:57Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Your radio has been running software since the 80s. I’m not any sort of expert, but I find it hard to believe that a radio like this has software. > **[9-Band World Radio - Short Band Radio - Portable Radio - Walter Drake](https://www.wdrake.com/buy-9-band-world-radio-359973?query=radio&referrer=%2Fsearch-page)** > > Walter Drake 9-band world radio lets you listen to your favorite AM, FM or short-wave radio programs — all from one compact device! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/31 "2022-02-11T01:26:47Z")
Yes, some analog radios still exist (though it wouldn’t shock me if even the one you’ve linked to has some microcontroller in there somewhere, if only in the power supply). We’re talking car radios here, and I’m presuming ones that aren’t specifically designed to be some kind of throwback. If it has a digital display, a CD player, more than a handful of buttons, etc. (let alone anything like a USB port or MP3 support)–then it’s running software. Though it may be called firmware to reflect that it’s not easily changed after production. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/32 "2022-02-11T01:39:29Z")
The OTA updates are a fairly recent development, doubt that Mazda was doing that in 2016. Your “radio” is no longer just a radio, its an infotainment center that interfaces with many other modules such as HVAC controls, clocks, CD, satillite radio, warning sounds, audio amplifiers, the instrument cluster, cameras and DVD systems. The fact that it requires a hardware swap tells me it must be a chip malfunction, likely the tuner chip. The SW files that handle all of the different configurations that a head unit is subject to is huge and requires years of developement and support. It also involves that it meets the requirements of several global regions, its not a minor undertaking which is why there is only a handful of suppliers that provide them to the automotive OEMs. When I worked at Bose they tried to develope their own head unit and actually sold one generation to Ferarri and they quickly decided not to pursue that business. Too much support required for too little profit I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/33 "2022-02-11T01:39:53Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Since the beginning of the year, the clock on the navigation system in my 2010 Honda Fit resets to 12:00 January 1, 2002 when the car is restarted. Good thing then that our 2010 Fit is the no-nav base model. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/34 "2022-02-11T01:49:16Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > The fact that it requires a hardware swap tells me it must be a chip malfunction, likely the tuner chip. Unlikely. As noted above, the bug comes from receiving an image file without an extension. From Mazda: > Between 1/24-1/31, a radio station in the Seattle area sent image files with no extension (e.g., missing .jpeg or .gif), which caused an issue on some 2014-2017 Mazda vehicles with older software. Mazda North American Operations (MNAO) has distributed service alerts advising dealers of the issue That’s not a tuner chip issue; that’s the software/firmware deciding what to do with an image type and borking itself when finding something it can’t handle. OTA updates have been difficult for most automakers due to them outsourcing almost everything, and those suppliers often doing their own outsourcing. No one controls the full software stack; hence no one can perform updates. They screwed up by building systems that were completely dependent on software but without the ability to do easy updates. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/35 "2022-02-11T01:53:08Z")
I didn’t dig into the root cause because its too much like work, which I just left. 😄 But yeah, a misformatted file name could cause issues. So much can go wrong its a wonder cars even get out of the driveway. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/36 "2022-02-11T02:09:31Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > The fact that it requires a hardware swap tells me it must be a chip malfunction, likely the tuner chip. So apparently some Mazda dealers are saying it requires a hardware swap, but I find it hard to believe that it _really_ requires a hardware swap. I suspect the service managers saying that don’t really understand the problem and are just defaulting to “just replace it” because they don’t know what else to do. There has got to be a way to do some sort of “hard reset” on the thing and restore it back to its factory defaults, and perhaps do a fresh reinstall of the firmware. Basically the equivalent of wiping your hard drive and reinstalling Windows. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/37 "2022-02-11T02:13:45Z")
Dealers make more money doing HW swaps. If their techs cant get the SW fix to work they just swap parts because people want their car back and dealerships dont have time to deep dive into repairs. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/38 "2022-02-11T02:16:30Z")
They may not be using much new hardware. The dealer can swap the module with a known good one so the customer can leave quickly; then unbrick and reflash the module on their own time; then use _that_ module for the next customer’s swap. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/39 "2022-02-11T02:22:29Z")
One would have thought in all these decades they could have made it ironclad. … then one considers Windows, and realizes these guys are doing pretty darn well all things considered. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The bug here is about HD radio, which gives extra metainformation (like pictures) due to the improved bandwidth, but the same _kind_ of bug could have been around for decades. Heh, my oldfartastic fist shake was not solely at the car equipment but also at the guys on the broadcasting side who keep throwing out the latest and greatest that I’m not really sure anyone asked for. Though I’m pretty sure my old 2009’s head unit would be impervious to the KUOW glitch, who knows what else could have gone wrong. (Though the CD changer was less than outstanding and once out of warranty I said, whatever, and just permanently plugged an iPod Nano [remember those?] into the AUX input.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162/40 "2022-02-11T03:07:47Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > They may not be using much new hardware. The dealer can swap the module with a known good one so the customer can leave quickly; then unbrick and reflash the module on their own time; then use _that_ module for the next customer’s swap. Perhaps, but it seems extremely weird that you can’t just reset the module yourself, like you can pretty much any other device that can possibly freeze or crash. Why wouldn’t there be that little button you can shove a pin into to reset it. Sure, that wouldn’t fix the bug, but if the issue is fixed on the station’s side, the radio would still work. Also, who came up with a standard that required filenames at all? The standard is to identify image types with their headers, and has been for decades now. And the filename would never be displayed to the user. Why isn’t it just a blob? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-mazda-drivers-cant-change-their-radios-off-of-kuow/959162.md?page=3)