# Seattle or San Diego? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 5, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631 "2023-09-05T01:24:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/61 "2023-09-08T20:48:42Z")
Driving. The driving experience in Seattle must be seen to be believed. Bone up on your NASCAR skills, race starts at 4:30am and goes all evening, with a brief lull between 3am and 4:30am. Public Transport? Must be a European thing that happens somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/62 "2023-09-09T00:04:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Okay, I answered your question. Your turn. I lived in Los Angeles. My friends and family are in LA and Orange County. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/63 "2023-09-09T03:04:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > and the lack of public land. This, very much so. I’m a transplant to California, from Upstate New York and New England, and open spaces are managed quite effectively around here. Is very impressive. Otherwise, developers would quickly build on the land and sell houses and corporate offices. Controlling opens spaces is also what contributes to the crazy high cost of housing. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/64 "2023-09-09T03:16:30Z")
I like Seattle, but every time I visit, one thing irks me more than anything else: the whole damn city shuts down at about 8 pm. If you’re the type of person that eats dinner at 5 and goes to sleep at 9, Seattle is probably a great place to live. But if you find yourself wanting street tacos at 1 am, then San Diego is it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/65 "2023-09-09T04:20:15Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Public Transport? Must be a European thing that happens somewhere else. You must not go to the same Seattle I do. Seattle has one of the best public transit systems I’ve ever seen - maybe it’s not much compared to New York or Chicago, but there are a number of buses that run a 24-hour schedule, the light rail runs 23 hours a day and has an expansion in progress (despite the mayor and the transit board seemingly doing everything in their power to NOT deliver what the voters approved), and the monorail takes what might be an aggravatingly long trip through downtown at rush hour into a 2-minute jaunt. I live in Olympia, and if I time out the transfers just right I can get from my front door to downtown Seattle in a little over 2 hours for $3.25. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/66 "2023-09-09T04:53:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You must not go to the same Seattle I do. Seattle has one of the best public transit systems I’ve ever seen It really depends on where you are and where you want to go. I work 11 minutes away by car, but 1 hour by bus. And recent route reconfigurations changed a 12-minute bus trip to downtown into another hour trek. If you live close to a hub, you’re golden. Otherwise, good luck. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/67 "2023-09-09T06:50:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I lived in Los Angeles. Yes, but what I asked- _was where do you live now?_ ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/68 "2023-09-09T13:31:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but what I asked- _was where do you live now?_ What does that matter? I said at the beginning that I was basing my opinion on what my friends and family back in LA are saying plus my visits back there. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/69 "2023-09-09T18:12:14Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > It really depends on where you are and where you want to go. I work 11 minutes away by car, but 1 hour by bus. And recent route reconfigurations changed a 12-minute bus trip to downtown into another hour trek. If you live close to a hub, you’re golden. Otherwise, good luck. Light rail from SeaTac to downtown is a breeze, and we once stayed near the university and took the bus in. It came often, wasn’t very expensive, and was reasonably fast. Not much public transit where my daughter lives, true, but all in all far better than San Diego. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/70 "2023-09-09T18:51:08Z")
The San Diego rail isn’t bad and it’s expanding…but it misses large swathes of territory. The buses seem to have a stop every block and don’t skip any of them. It takes an hour to get out of your own neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/71 "2023-09-09T21:12:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Light rail from SeaTac to downtown is a breeze, and we once stayed near the university and took the bus in. Yes, IF you’re at a hub such as SeaTac or downtown or the U district, and you’re traveling to another hub, you’re golden. It’s great for tourists. Most residents do not live in the U-district or downtown or in the airport. There’s been a big reconfiguration of bus routes. Many/most bus routes have been eliminated that don’t have a hub at one end, in an attempt to accommodate people using fewer routes. So if you’re going from a non-hub to another non-hub, you’re likely to have transfers, a decent walk, and a wait or two in the rain. As I said, my 11-minute driving commute is nearly an hour by bus. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/72 "2023-09-10T06:15:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What does that matter? So, you wont answer. Thats fine, but I cooperated with your query. And your friends etc who still live here? You know, they can move anytime they want. Look, why are housing prices in CA so high? Because people REALLY want to live here- great weather, huge amounts of things to do, and lots of great jobs. Sure CA has its issues, but other than housing (and CA isnt even the highest, but we are _way up_ there), no worse than and better than many other states. High taxes? a dozen states are worse. High crime?- 17 states are worse. Bad weather? Do I even have to go there? Jobs? We are #1. Education? Not the best, but compared to red states- not bad at all. Health care is pretty good. So dising on CA, without revealing what state you live in- which might be one of those much worse- is a bit well, That being said- Washington/Seattle is lovely too. Not without it’s issues, of course. Comes down to- do you like rain or sun? . ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/73 "2023-09-10T15:39:45Z")
Even before the route reorganization it could be tough. I used to take the 43 heading down from U Village to downtown. I could do my drive in less than 10 minutes. It took 45 minutes on the bus. Why? Because it quite literally stopped every two blocks. I would gladly have walked a couple extra blocks each day if they switched the stops to every four blocks, but no. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/74 "2023-09-10T16:24:02Z")
Enough going back and forth. Apparently s/he is in Seattle, according to his / her OP here. Bolding mine. > [@Do San Francisco, Los Angeles, et alii prove the failure of progressivism?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-san-francisco-los-angeles-et-alii-prove-the-failure-of-progressivism/988101/1): > > And maybe California as a whole **and apparently my hometown of Seattle** is going into the crapper. > [@Do San Francisco, Los Angeles, et alii prove the failure of progressivism?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-san-francisco-los-angeles-et-alii-prove-the-failure-of-progressivism/988101): > > And maybe California as a whole and apparently my hometown of Seattle is going into the crapper. Of course I’m talking the modern day progressivism not Bull Moose politics. And this is not meant to be an indictment of general Democratic ideals but the ultra left-wing part of the party like Warren, Sanders and AOC. It seems like when the Progressives are in charge for a long time and are fairly secure in running a state or city, we see the same results: People taxed into emigration. So basic… @DrDeth it was pretty cool that you answered. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/75 "2023-09-10T16:34:59Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Apparently s/he is in Seattle, No, his hometown _was_ Seattle. He doesn’t live here now, and it’s none of DrDeth’s business where he currently lives. It has no bearing on the issue of the condition of California. He’s not allowed to criticize a state if his current state is worse? That’s BS. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/76 "2023-09-10T17:42:27Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > He doesn’t live here now, and it’s none of DrDeth’s business where he currently lives. It has no bearing on the issue of the condition of California. Thank you. I was up front at the beginning that my assessment of California was from anecdotes from friends and family with me having moved away 15 years ago. I claimed no first-hand knowledge other than the rare visit back. Meanwhile DrDeth’s argument seems to be “I live here and you don’t. Therefore the information you are getting from people that still live here is invalid.” which if you think about it makes his argument that he is right, shall we say, interesting. And I qualify Seattle as “apparently” because I don’t keep in contact with people specifically in that area. A lot are spread around all of Puget Sound and I haven’t been back in a decade so I just go off of news articles understanding that Seattle has always been a little wonky (not as bad as Portland) so things going on there can be interpreted rather than reported by the news. I will say this, I have given my current state on the SD many times so it ain’t like I’m hiding. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/77 "2023-09-10T17:59:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And your friends etc who still live here? You know, they can move anytime they want. So just quit their job? Move away from friends and family? And what if they have older family members that depend on them? What if they don’t have the $5000 in cash to rent the moving truck and pay first/last/security on a new apartment? It is not always easy for someone to pack up and move out of their situation. And if they are staying, then is your point that they are lying and they love it here like you do? > [@DrDeth](#): > > So dising on CA, without revealing what state you live in- which might be one of those much worse- is a bit well, So because my state may be worse then … what exactly? California is not so bad? What if my state is better? Then all of the sudden my dissing of California holds weight? I think I’ll go watch some flat earth videos because their logic and arguments are better then yours. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/78 "2023-09-10T18:10:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And your friends etc who still live here? You know, they can move anytime they want. So what do you make of the latest poll that only 70% of Californians love living there and 40% are want to leave? Any other states with a lower approval rating / higher get me out of here? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/79 "2023-09-10T19:10:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So what do you make of the latest poll that only 70% of Californians love living there and 40% are want to leave? Any other states with a lower approval rating / higher get me out of here? 40% of Californians say they want to leave for the past 10 years at least. If a significant proportion of them actually did, the place would be empty. Maybe we like to kvetch? California is one of the highest states in terms of percentage of people born here who still live here, for what that’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631/80 "2023-09-10T19:24:22Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > He doesn’t live here now, and it’s none of DrDeth’s business where he currently lives. That’s true. But note **he asked ME where I lived** , which also was _none of his business_, but in the spirit of this thread i complied. Why not? > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Meanwhile DrDeth’s argument seems to be “I live here and you don’t. Note even close. I gave multiple cites. Personal anecdotes arent totally valueless, but compared to a good cite like from World Population Review, and others, they become background noise. And “friend of a friend” and someone who lived here 15 years ago are worth even less. Plenty of cites and facts out there on the Internet. Try some. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So what do you make of the latest poll that only 70% of Californians love living there and 40% are want to leave? Well, that factoid is meaningless without a cite to back it up and a comparison with other states. So here ya go- [https://247wallst.com/economy/2021/11/02/this-is-the-state-with-the-least-loyal-residents/](https://247wallst.com/economy/2021/11/02/this-is-the-state-with-the-least-loyal-residents/) _Here are the 20 states people are least loyal to and the percentages of movers relocating out of state:_ \*\* New York (26.65%)\* \*\* North Dakota (22.67%)\* \*\* Hawaii (21.94%)\* \*\* Rhode Island (21.71%)\* \*\* Alaska (21.41%)\* \*\* Massachusetts (20.63%)\* \*\* New Hampshire (20.04%)\* \*\* Vermont (20.01%)\* \*\* Wyoming (19.82%)\* \*\* New Jersey (19.71%)\* Note that CA is not there. TX does have the most loyal residents, - which says a LOT about those state loyalty ratings, since we had shared with use earlier a nice article about what a hell-hole Texas is. But Texans love it despite horrible weather, horrible politics, and the worst grid in the nation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seattle-or-san-diego/989631.md?page=5)