# Sebelius makes plans for no Plan B **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663 "2011-12-09T20:18:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/1 "2011-12-09T20:18:48Z")
As you may have heard, the Obama administration, speaking thru Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, overruled the FDA approval of Plan B, the morning-after contraceptive, to girls younger than 17 without a prescription. So I’ll get this started with a link to the best editorial I have seen yet, [Plan B and the danger of extreme examples](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/post/plan-b-and-the-danger-of-extreme-examples/2011/12/08/gIQADMiTiO_blog.html), by Alexandra Petri in the Washington Post. > [@](#): > > I understand the concerns on both sides, but I generally feel that if a teenager needs access to a morning-after pill, it is better that she have it than not. There are some dire situations where it’s the best solution. And even in less-urgent scenarios, the last thing you want is people who are unable to remember simple things like “Abstinence is the only 100 percent effective form of contraception” being forced to care for babies. In some cases, that’s all they were taught, no one cluttering their minds with complicated things like condoms, and this deplorable failure of memory bodes poorly. Babies require a lot of care. You cannot simply leave them in train stations, or people start passing remarks. > > Plan B, at best, implies the presence and failure of a Plan A. Will it always be used that way? No, obviously. But is that use valid? I think so, and making it available on pharmacy shelves would make it easier for people who need it to get it within the time window when taking it would be most effective. > > Comparisons to alcohol only go so far. Not selling alcohol to people under 21, in an ideal world, could keep those people from access to alcohol. But making Plan B more inaccessible to minors won’t prevent them from having sex. It’ll simply make it more difficult for them to do so responsibly. Next we’ll stop selling calamine lotion. “That’ll prevent mosquito bites,” we’ll murmur. So will someone tell me why the Secretary’s action makes sense, using a reason not covered in Petri’s editorial? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/2 "2011-12-09T22:19:55Z")
I’d imagine it’s because allowing it was too politically controversial. They don’t want people to say, “Look at Obama, letting kids buy birth control over the counter”, especially in the run up to the election. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/3 "2011-12-09T22:28:12Z")
Well…I’m not sure why it’s an issue that minors should need a prescription to get this. Can’t they get a prescription from a local clinic, if they don’t have a doctor or medical insurance or whatever? In fact, ISTM that like any drug that isn’t over the counter (I assume it’s not), it really requires a prescription whether the person is a minor or not. No? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/4 "2011-12-09T22:30:36Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well…I’m not sure why it’s an issue that minors should need a prescription to get this. Consider the need and the timeline. Unlike a headache, which may go away, if you are pregnant, you only have a short time to react. Getting an appointment with a doctor will jeopardize your chances. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/5 "2011-12-09T22:31:54Z")
It doesn’t require a prescription for adults, no. And seriously, aren’t the kids who won’t go to the doctor to get a prescription exactly the ones we want to not have kids? The idea is to have as few barriers as possible because we absolutely positively don’t want these teenagers breeding, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/6 "2011-12-09T22:34:13Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > And seriously, aren’t the kids who won’t go to the doctor to get a prescription exactly the ones we want to not have kids? Bingo! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/7 "2011-12-09T23:04:18Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Consider the need and the timeline. Unlike a headache, which may go away, if you are pregnant, you only have a short time to react. Getting an appointment with a doctor will jeopardize your chances. Ok, so what you are saying is this drug should be over the counter? It has no major side effects or issues? I’m good with that, personally, but I imagine that some folks might be tense on quasi-religious grounds. We are talking minors here, yes? -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/8 "2011-12-09T23:22:15Z")
Couldn’t there have been a compromise, like setting the age at 14 or 15 instead of 17? Obama, speaking about this, talked of the issue of 10 and 11 years old girls buying this with bubble gum, so why not protect the children (won’t _someone_ think of them?), but let the teens who might really need it, get it. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/9 "2011-12-09T23:59:13Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Ok, so what you are saying is this drug should be over the counter? It has no major side effects or issues? I’m good with that, personally, but I imagine that some folks might be tense on quasi-religious grounds. We are talking minors here, yes? It is over the counter now, with an age restriction. Half of all girls have sex before they are 17. That demographic is exactly the one Plan B is most useful for. We are talking about females of childbearing age. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Couldn’t there have been a compromise, like setting the age at 14 or 15 instead of 17? Obama, speaking about this, talked of the issue of 10 and 11 years old girls buying this with bubble gum, so why not protect the children (won’t _someone_ think of them?), but let the teens who might really need it, get it. An 11 year old that had unprotected sex is someone I’d want to have access to Plan B. The FDA declared that Plan B is safe to be sold to all females of childbearing age. There should not be any age restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/10 "2011-12-10T00:01:15Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > An 11 year old that had unprotected sex is someone I’d want to have access to Plan B. The FDA declared that Plan B is safe to be sold to all females of childbearing age. There should not be any age restrictions. Well, that’s nice and all, but maybe parents want to have some say about medications that their children might take. Right now, the age limit is 17. I propose it would better, if not perfect, to lower the age to 14. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/11 "2011-12-10T00:09:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, that’s nice and all, but maybe parents want to have some say about medications that their children might take. Right now, the age limit is 17. I propose it would better, if not perfect, to lower the age to 14. I’m sure parents want to have some say about their children having sex or using contraception too. Doesn’t seem to work though, hence the need for emergency contraception. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/12 "2011-12-10T00:43:26Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > I’m sure parents want to have some say about their children having sex or using contraception too. Doesn’t seem to work though, hence the need for emergency contraception. This has a lot to do with it. In discussions on Christian boards I frequent, the “right” of vendors not to sell Plan B to young girls is being upheld even over their right to take it in cases of rape. The interesting thing about this is that they’re invoking the A-word: taking Plan B to prevent the lodging of a presumably fertilized ovum or blastula, as that ovum/blastula is a baby with a right to life, and presenting its lodging is actually an abortion. (Be clear that I’m _reporting_ this, not _advocating_ it.) ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/13 "2011-12-10T01:25:14Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > This has a lot to do with it. In discussions on Christian boards I frequent, the “right” of vendors not to sell Plan B to young girls is being upheld even over their right to take it in cases of rape. The interesting thing about this is that they’re invoking the A-word: taking Plan B to prevent the lodging of a presumably fertilized ovum or blastula, as that ovum/blastula is a baby with a right to life, and presenting its lodging is actually an abortion. (Be clear that I’m _reporting_ this, not _advocating_ it.) It’s not exactly surprising that religious nuts don’t understand the science of reproduction or contraception. Is their new slogan: “Life begins at penetration!”? A dose of hormones only prevents ovulation or fertilization of an egg, similar to all other forms of contraception. If a woman already is pregnant, the morning-after pill has no effect. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/14 "2011-12-10T01:35:59Z")
One of my relations was working at hospital before plan B was available to minors. Catholic girl is admitted with intense unexplained pain in the abdomen. Once the required sex discussion without parents present occurs the girl tells them that she couldn’t tell her parents but that she was raped and needs the plan B pill. They give it to her and tell the parents that their tests revealed nothing abnormal and she was released. Very expensive for the medical system. At least the girl was bright enough to figure out how to prevent an unwanted pregnancy when her parents wouldn’t allow it, but she shouldn’t have had to do it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/15 "2011-12-10T04:55:40Z")
I’m of a mixed mind when it comes to making Plan B totally OTC. I understand what Teva was trying to do in getting the FDA to get rid of the age restriction (to make it more accessible to everyone by putting it next to condoms in the family planning section). However, it is still a powerful drug, and I like the idea of it being behind the pharmacy counter so that I can actually counsel someone on how to take it, the side effects, and what she should expect after taking it. Can we split the difference and eliminate the age requirement, but still have it sold behind the pharmacy counter? I will say I’ve never denied it from anyone, however back when I was an intern, I did work with a pharmacist once who refused to sell it. I disagreed, but it was her license at the time. At least now I can make the call and give it to whoever asks. > [@Implicit](#): > > It’s not exactly surprising that religious nuts don’t understand the science of reproduction or contraception. Is their new slogan: “Life begins at penetration!”? A dose of hormones only prevents ovulation or fertilization of an egg, similar to all other forms of contraception. If a woman already is pregnant, the morning-after pill has no effect. Actually, this isn’t 100% true… Plan B has two effects, one, to prevent ovulation if it hasn’t yet occurred (the same as regular Birth Control Pills do), but it also has a secondary effect. It slightly changes the lining in the uterus making it harder for a fertilized embryo to implant. However, if the embryo has already implanted, Plan B will do absolutely NOTHING. At that point, you need to go to a doctor and get a script for another medication, which would cause an actual abortion (and I have filled scripts for it before also) ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/16 "2011-12-10T04:57:58Z")
Most minors have access to condoms and the Pill and that’s not working. I can see it from a few different angles. It is really weird to think that my daughter that I don’t have could get birth control without my knowing it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/17 "2011-12-10T05:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _…I’m sure parents want to have some say about their children having sex …_ Well, of course, parents “have a say” in the matter! They can say whatever they want to the horny little shits, for all the good its going to do them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/18 "2011-12-10T05:17:46Z")
At the point where your kid needs Plan B, no, actually, I don’t think the parents get a say. Either the kid’s been raped, in which case the parent has no business interfering with the kid’s reproductive decision, or the kid’s not been raped, in which case the kid is already making reproductive decisions. You might not be happy with that, but being a parent isn’t really about your happiness. This is one of those cases where your child’s wellbeing takes precedence over your own comfort level. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/19 "2011-12-10T05:22:10Z")
One minor problem: kids under 16 have no form of ID with their age on it, so there would be no way to even verify their age if there were an age limitation on it. In case anyone is interested, it costs $35 for a dose of Plan B at Planned Parenthood, and more like $50 or $55 at a regular pharmacy. Very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663/20 "2011-12-10T05:29:04Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > It is really weird to think that my daughter that I don’t have could get birth control without my knowing it. Oh! Well, if it’s weird, let’s stop the whole fucking thing. Sure, more teenagers will be having babies they don’t want, but hey, wouldn’t want you to feel weird. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sebelius-makes-plans-for-no-plan-b/605663.md?page=2)