# Secession **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 27, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482 "2016-06-27T00:36:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/21 "2016-06-27T01:42:46Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Who would impose such a framework? Great Britian isn’t likely to accept rules set down by the US, and vice versa. Nor should they. Not sure, but it’s beside the point. I’m asking _should_ secession be an option, not how it should be implemented. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/22 "2016-06-27T01:45:05Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I disagree. At some point further secession county from state, city from county, etc leads to unviable states. The problem with a slippery slope argument is that it assumes people will willfully go down the slide. Just because the people in Texas, for example, might choose to secede and form a new country doesn’t mean the people in [Nada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nada,_Texas) (pop 165) are going to do the same. I think the majority of people are sensible enough to realize what would work as a country and what wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/23 "2016-06-27T01:48:10Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > I don’t think it has to be done on a micro level. Rural America is very different than urban and costal regions of the nation. Much of the resentment of rural America comes from the sense that they are ruled by people far away and of an essentially different culture. > > If the nation split so that the rural, conservative and religious portions of the nation governed themselves, allowing the urban, liberal and secular portions to do the same, there would be less resentment and less gridlock. I don’t think you actually live in the country you think you do. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/24 "2016-06-27T01:48:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem with a slippery slope argument is that it assumes people will willfully go down the slide. Just because the people in Texas, for example, might choose to secede and form a new country doesn’t mean the people in [Nada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nada,_Texas) (pop 165) are going to do the same. I think the majority of people are sensible enough to realize what would work as a country and what wouldn’t. That’s how we got the state of West Virginia. Read [Secession in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States). There are many such minor movements that currently exist. Of course they are considered cranks by most because after US Civil War I the issue was settled with finality. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/25 "2016-06-27T01:50:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think you actually live in the country you think you do. Please do elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/26 "2016-06-27T01:51:07Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > From a large political entity by a smaller political entity. You know, like the UK from the EU or Texas from the US. The EU isn’t a political entity. It’s an economic entity. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/27 "2016-06-27T01:54:00Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s how we got the state of West Virginia. Read [Secession in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States). There are many such minor movements that currently exist. Of course they are considered cranks by most because after US Civil War I the issue was settled with finality. West Virginia seems to function as a state. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/28 "2016-06-27T01:58:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The EU isn’t a political entity. It’s an economic entity. Wikipedia defines the EU as a [politico-economic union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union). But it hardly seems worth derailing the thread to argue the nature of the EU. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/29 "2016-06-27T02:00:08Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > West Virginia seems to function as a state. It does function as a state but not as a nation state. But the mention of West Virginia was a rebuttal to the idea that people will be content to secede as pre-existing large political entities like US states. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/30 "2016-06-27T02:07:06Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But the mention of West Virginia was a rebuttal to the idea that people will be content to secede as pre-existing large political entities like US states. Maybe I missed something, but I think Little Nemo’s point was it wouldn’t be in people’s best interest to split into ineffectively small units, so they would tend not to. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/31 "2016-06-27T02:18:54Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Maybe I missed something, but I think Little Nemo’s point was it wouldn’t be in people’s best interest to split into ineffectively small units, so they would tend not to. What would stop something like London or NYC from wanting to emulate Singapore? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/32 "2016-06-27T02:24:30Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Au contraire, mon frere. Over a dozen countries split from the Soviet Union. Yugoslavia broke into a half dozen parts. The Czech Republic and Slovakia used to be one. East Timor, Eritrea, and South Sudan were not on the map when I started memorizing the world’s countries in third grade. > > Overall, if a nation is beset with bad government, corruption, authoritarianism, or racism from the top, secession is a way for some people to escape. Whether it’s truly practical will depend on the details of any given situation. Those countries did not split from the Soviet Union until the Soviet Union ceased to exist as a unity and left them dangling. There was never a secession. Yugoslavia was not a nation with a history – it was a group of states thrown together as a political expediency. Which, like the USSR, failed… Czechoslovakia, similar. Eritrea and South Sudan are still in a state of virtual war with their former landlords. East Timor seems to be working. I said there were very few examples, and you have borne me out by naming those very few. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/33 "2016-06-27T02:27:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What would stop something like London or NYC from wanting to emulate Singapore? Singapore functions as an effective nation. If NYC or London can do the same, I see no objection to their seceding. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/34 "2016-06-27T03:14:49Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > And I forgot Singapore. Nitpick: Singapore didn’t so much secede from Malaysia, as it was kicked out. Voted ‘off the island’ Survivor style. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/35 "2016-06-27T03:28:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It does function as a state but not as a nation state. But the mention of West Virginia was a rebuttal to the idea that people will be content to secede as pre-existing large political entities like US states. And West Virginia “seceded” from Virginia in 1861 and hasn’t split any further in all the decades since. This is evidence that refutes the idea that once splitting begins it proceeds ad infinitum. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/36 "2016-06-27T03:35:28Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Singapore functions as an effective nation. If NYC or London can do the same, I see no objection to their seceding. The US military settled this question. How many carriers does NYC have? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And West Virginia “seceded” from Virginia in 1861 and hasn’t split any further in all the decades since. This is evidence that refutes the idea that once splitting begins it proceeds ad infinitum. The US military and courts have decided this question. You cannot split ad infinitum or at all really if a vastly superior military prevents it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/37 "2016-06-27T03:42:32Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Please do elaborate. You seem to feel there is a binary split in this country. On one side are all the rural people, all the religious people, and all the conservatives. On the other side are all the urban people, all the secular people, and all the liberals. I disagree with the idea that such a split exists. There are rural secular people and urban religious people; there are rural liberals and urban conservatives; and there are religious liberals and secular conservatives. And all these groups are mixed together geographically. Even if you were able to find the split line on any of these issues, you wouldn’t necessarily be improving things by dividing the country along it. Ironically, often times the further out on a spectrum people are, the less likely they are to get along with other people at the same end of the same spectrum. Look at religion - the more devout somebody is in the belief that their own faith is the right one, the less likely they are to be tolerant of devout believers in another faith. The same is true about politics. Often times they only thing that keeps people united is their shared opposition to the people on the other end of the spectrum. Remove that end of the spectrum, and the people on the remaining end will turn on each other. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/38 "2016-06-27T03:43:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The US military settled this question. Yeah, the Union won the Civil War. But that’s not the topic of discussion. I’m not asking if states can succeed. The answer to that is clear and indisputable. I’m asking should they or any other political entity be able to. > [@octopus](#): > > The How many carriers does NYC have? How many does Singapore have? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/39 "2016-06-27T03:46:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The US military settled this question. How many carriers does NYC have? > > The US military and courts have decided this question. You cannot split ad infinitum or at all really if a vastly superior military prevents it. That’s a different topic. In fact, I think there’s a current thread on the issue of whether secession _is_ a legal possibility (short answer: no, in this country). This thread is debating the topic of whether secession _should be_ a legal possibility. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482/40 "2016-06-27T03:51:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The US military settled this question. How many carriers does NYC have? The US military was involved in establishing Singapore as an independent state? Did I miss something? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secession/758482.md?page=3)