# Second gear in cars: what's especially wrong with it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 1, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132 "2004-01-01T16:51:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/1 "2004-01-01T16:51:31Z")
What is it that is special about second gear in cars with manual transmissions? What difficulties are particular to it? When I sold my Pinto in '77 (don’t remember what model year it was but I guess about '70), the fellow who bought it drove me home in it. He never used second, always shifting from first directly to third. I asked him about it, and he said he never used second gear on any car, said it was bad for the car. An old aquaintence who fixed Volkswagen Beetles for a living once told me that their second gear wasn’t designed properly, and wasn’t really intended to be used. Our '97 Jeep Cherokee is very hard to get into second gear when it’s cold. Indeed, on a cold day, we’ll drive five or ten miles before we can start using second. I would have expected that second gear would have been like the others, especially now that every gear has synchromesh (on older cars I always used the synchromesh on second gear, just lightly touching it and not even shifting into the detent, after coming to a stop and before shifting into first, to avoid grinding). These things all seem quirky by themselves, but now I see a pattern. So, what’s the big problem with second gear??? ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/2 "2004-01-01T17:27:16Z")
Huh. I’ve never heard any of that stuff about second gear. On the other hand, I had a '79 F-150 with a 4-speed stick, and it was designed so that if you weren’t hauling a load or towing you’d start up in second gear, first gear was the granny gear. ---
**Author:** ![herman\_and\_bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f1d935/32.png) [@herman\_and\_bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/herman_and_bill)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/3 "2004-01-01T17:52:05Z")
I shift my 5 speed truck - 1-3-5- on the high way, maybe go thru all the gears in town. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/4 "2004-01-01T18:58:31Z")
In 30 years of professional auto repair, some of that at a transmission shop, I’ve never heard or seen anything about 2nd gear being different, poorly designed, not to be used, or the like. My reaction to what you’ve related is that those people are making gross overgeneralizations based on some specific incident or “something they’ve heard.” The profound – indeed, huge – lack of logic in spending time and money designing and manufacturing a portion of a device for the express purpose of not using it is flabbergasting. What I have seen is a tendency for the brass synchro rings in **3rd** gear to wear out first in 4- and 5-speed trannies. This is because it takes a smidge longer to make the dogleg shift (forward, sideways, forward) from 2nd to 3rd than it takes to make the straight shift from 1st to 2nd or 3rd to 4th. Most folks subconsciously allow the same amount of time for those shifts before engaging the clutch, so often that 2-3 shift isn’t quite completed before motion is imparted to 3rd gear. This makes the synchro ring do extra work and wear out sooner. I think what you’ve heard is based on some isolated occurences that were incorrectly extrapolated into a broad generality. When tested among the millions of cars that have existed, and not just the two or three that one individual has had experience with, the notion is not supported. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/5 "2004-01-01T19:19:03Z")
In many transmissions 2nd gear gets the most wear. This is for a couple of reasons. If you are going to accelerate hard up a freeway ramp you start in first speed shift to second, and then on to third. A speed shift from first to second can come so fast that the clutch may not be fully disengaged. Also even if the clutch does get fully disengaged, the gear speeds are still not similar. So the syncromesh has to a lot of work to get the gears traveling at the same speed so that the gears can mesh without grinding. When slowing down downshifting can also put extra strain on the syncromeshes. Fourth to third usually is not to large a change mathematically, so the snycros don’t have too hard a job. But then the driver does a big downshift into second which is mathematically a long way from third and the syncros have a BIG job to get the gears traveling at the same speed. Most people don’t downshift into first to help slow the car, so first gear isn’t exposed to same forces. On the six speed transmission in the S60R I am driving the syncromesh assemblies are tailored to the forces that they will be subjected too. Fifth and sixth have single sided syncromeshes. First gear and fourth are double sided syncromeshes, and second, third are a triple faced. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/6 "2004-01-01T19:28:09Z")
Second Gear gives you the widest range of take-off accelleration and is probably the most abused gear. Here`s how I use them; First gear- just to get the car rolling Second- get the engine through the power band and up to speed so you don`t bog down in third gear Third- cruising around town or further accelleration on the highway Fourth- final gear or for cruising highway with some accelleration left Fifth- final gear or the fuel economy gear Second gear has always had the best accelleration in the sticks I`ve driven. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/7 "2004-01-01T20:13:59Z")
I go through the 5 gears on my 1990 Miata almost religiously, and I drive too fast, too often. However, I haven’t spent a penny on the tranny and have over 100,000 miles on it. ---
**Author:** ![badmana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@badmana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badmana)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/8 "2004-01-01T20:40:47Z")
I agree, second is probably just more abused. My 2nd gear is primarily used for sprints on on-ramps and passing in city traffic. I probably abuse 3rd more than 2nd as it’s the best gear to use on highway passing (red lines at 140 km/h) and I drive on the highways 80% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/9 "2004-01-01T20:48:13Z")
I bought a Datsun F10 in 1976 It was, basicly a front wheel drive B210. They made it for only 1&1/2 model years. From the day I drove it off the showroom floor, it would NOT go into 2nd gear if the outside temp was less than 40°. It was in the shop several times. The service manager finally told me to buy a new car.😕 ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/10 "2004-01-01T21:15:50Z")
\>\>I shift my 5 speed truck - 1-3-5- \>\>In 30 years of professional auto repair, some of that at a transmission shop, I’ve never heard or seen anything about 2nd gear being different, poorly designed, not to be used, or the like. Gary, meet herman\_and\_bill. Seriously, tho, thanks for many quick and thoughtful answers. More specifically, for you mechanical types, since we now have two different postings about no second gear in cold weather, any ideas on that one? My experience with second gear on the Jeep is that the colder things are, the harder I have to pull on the stick to get into second. Since I don’t have much idea how hard I’d have to pull on it to damage something, I just don’t try until, say, a ten or fifteen pound pull works. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/11 "2004-01-01T22:04:05Z")
In cases I’ve seen where shifting in general (all gears) is difficult or impossible when it’s cold, the remedy has been to change the transmission oil to a type less affected by cold temperatures\*. Not having experienced a situation where only 2nd gear presents a problem, I don’t know if a fluid change would help. Having only 2nd gear affected suggests a mechanical problem related to the 2nd gear mechanisms, having it be temperature-related suggests the fluid is a factor. A fluid change is relatively inexpensive and might eliminate the symptom. Make sure the shop is knowledgeable about what types of oil are acceptable for the particular transmission. * * * \*In one case years ago, a car was absolutely impossible to shift below a certain temperature, but shifted fine when warmer. Inspection revealed it must have been in a flood – when it was cold enough, the bottom 2 inches inside the tranny were occupied by a solid chunk of ice! ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/12 "2004-01-02T07:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Napier \* > \*\* > An old aquaintence who fixed Volkswagen Beetles for a living once told me that their second gear wasn’t designed properly, and wasn’t really intended to be used. > \*\* I happen to own a 1960 beetle that has been converted to look like a 1929 mercedes. The important guts for this discussion (engine, transmission, etc) are all still the original beetle. 2nd gear is the hardest to get into, and the one you’re most likely to grind the gears on if you aren’t paying attention, but that seems to be mostly due to the relatively slow speed the car is moving at that point and the fact that synchronizers back then aren’t what they are now. I certainly use 2nd gear quite a bit, and as long as I’m paying attention to what I’m doing I’ve never had any problem with it. It works fine. I asked about this on a usenet newsgroup I frequent about beetles, and got no response there other than one person who agreed that it sounded like a bunch of hooey. These guys tend to know their stuff when it comes to beetles (unlike me who is just a tinkerer) and if no one on there has heard of it, then you can be fairly certain it’s not widespread lore. ---
**Author:** ![smaft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@smaft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smaft)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/13 "2004-01-03T02:13:39Z")
See, now, I’m in a completely different situation. In my 98 Jeep TJ (Wrangler), it’s first gear that I don’t use (unless I’m starting uphill or with passengers), because it’s too short to do anything, while second is low enough that it works better. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/14 "2004-01-03T05:43:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary T \* > \*\* > What I have seen is a tendency for the brass synchro rings in **3rd** gear to wear out first in 4- and 5-speed trannies. This is because it takes a smidge longer to make the dogleg shift (forward, sideways, forward) from 2nd to 3rd than it takes to make the straight shift from 1st to 2nd or 3rd to 4th. Most folks subconsciously allow the same amount of time for those shifts before engaging the clutch, so often that 2-3 shift isn’t quite completed before motion is imparted to 3rd gear. This makes the synchro ring do extra work and wear out sooner. > ] Thanks, I grind that shift 2-3 times a month, now maybe that I recognize what I am doing, I might stop doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ezstrete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ea924/32.png) [@Ezstrete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezstrete)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/15 "2004-01-03T05:50:53Z")
As on who began driving before synchro mesh was a common thing I would like to remind that first gear is intended to be used ONLY to overcome the inertia of rest. Second gear should be engaged as soon as motion is acomplished. Most drivers get into second and bring the vehicle up to road speed before dropping into 3rd and coasting. This is a waste of time and fuel and is hard on the second gear. Second gear should be engaged when the terrain or the load is too much for 3rd,or fourth, and prevents the engine from “lugging” from overload. If used properly 2nd gear is a tool------and like any tool should be used-------but not abused. A good user of transmissions knows how to utilize gears--------not try to make them a Macho Man facade. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/16 "2004-01-03T07:14:03Z")
I drive a pretty crapped out stick Saturn. (Before that, I had a Ford Festiva and before that a DIESEL chevette.) Notice a trend? I’ve never noticed much of a problem with any of the gears on them. However, I had a friend back in my diesel chevette days that had a sports car (no, I don’t remember what kind–obviously cars are not my hobby) and guys she worked with kept telling her–“Can you start it in second?” Thats my stunning contribution. 🙂 (oh, the festiva and the chevette were stick too) One less thing to break, I think. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/17 "2004-01-03T11:42:21Z")
Good god. I never knew they even made a diesel chevette. You have my condolences. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/18 "2004-01-03T12:11:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whuckfistle \* > \*\*Second Gear gives you the widest range of take-off accelleration and is probably the most abused gear. > > Here`s how I use them; > > First gear- just to get the car rolling > Second- get the engine through the power band and up to speed > so you don`t bog down in third gear > Third- cruising around town or further accelleration on the highway > Fourth- final gear or for cruising highway with some accelleration left > Fifth- final gear or the fuel economy gear > > Second gear has always had the best accelleration in the sticks I`ve driven. \*\* Wow, I’m in fifth at about 55 kph and wind through the others at about 10 kph intervals say 20/30/40. I’m changing at about 1400 rpm (I think) and the car will pull smoothly from 55 to 120 at about 3000 rpm. My experience is that most people who drive manuals use the top gears **far** too little and unnecessarily piss away fuel. If I’m in top gear in a 4 cylinder 2 litre sedan when you’re still in third I wonder if that is true of you. 55 kph is about 34mph. It is slightly over the urban limit (50) but the car objects to pulling under load in fifth at that speed. ---
**Author:** ![bsane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@bsane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bsane)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/19 "2004-01-03T14:12:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Ezstrete** > > Second gear should be engaged as soon as motion is acomplished. Is this still true though? My '93 firebird is geared extremely high (ex: 1st gear redlines at 35mph). In fact the owners manual recommends downshifting into 1st at speeds below 20mph, something that would be a big mistake in most cars… ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132/20 "2004-01-03T14:41:50Z")
\>As on who began driving before synchro mesh was a common thing I would like to remind that first gear is intended to be used ONLY to overcome the inertia of rest. But surely this generalization needs revision, what with our modern times and all. My last car was a Honda Civic 4WD wagon. It had a 6 speed stick shift, with the lowest one marked “SL” and the next one up marked “1”. All were synchromesh. And my first car was a Toyota Corolla with a 2 speed Toyoglide automatic transmission (I know it’s not manual but let me build momentum here). We can’t apply the same strategy to both. If they put synchromesh on a gear can’t we infer they mean it to be used in motion? Wouldn’t they anticipate a range of driver habits and keep their designs evolving? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-gear-in-cars-whats-especially-wrong-with-it/222132.md?page=2)