# Second-guessing Dems on the Debt **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 19, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287 "2023-05-19T17:37:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/181 "2023-06-01T12:10:14Z")
We have to have this important vote to stop hitting ourselves in the head with this hammer! It’s the most important vote of the session! Why weren’t the Dem votes to increase the ceiling during the last administration considered extremely important? Because the Dems don’t decide to start hitting themselves in the head with a hammer to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/182 "2023-06-01T12:43:49Z")
Now to see how the Senate goes. We already know what was thrown in to keep Manchin on, so it should be mostly about what people like Lee and Cruz and Paul try to do to stop the procedures. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/183 "2023-06-01T12:51:08Z")
Looks like there’s easily enough support to overcome a filibuster in the Senate, so all that Lee and Paul can do is drag things out a little longer by refusing unanimous consent on a time agreement. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/184 "2023-06-01T13:17:48Z")
An interesting provision that was included in the bill is that if the federal budget is operating under a continuing resolution next fiscal year, all federal agencies will take a 1% cut to their budgets. The goal is to force Congress to pass the 12 appropriations bills through regular order, which hasn’t happened since 1997. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/185 "2023-06-01T13:24:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Boeberts I find it disturbing to see this word in the plural. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/186 "2023-06-01T15:27:10Z")
Is there a limit to how high Congress can raise the debt ceiling? Could they raise it to, for example, a quadrillion dollars? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/187 "2023-06-01T16:02:02Z")
Don’t see what prevents it. Though ISTM as discussed here they could more elegantly just eliminate it and go back to authorizing debt issues as they become necessary through the budget cycle, with some reserved authorization for direct issue in case of unexpected war/disaster/mandatory-program cost overruns or funding-source losses. Taking it to a quadrillion would launch a million panicmonger podcasts that we’re planning to hyperinflate. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/188 "2023-06-01T16:42:46Z")
There might be a downside to eliminating the ceiling. Suppose Democrats accomplish it, and as soon as Republicans get in the eliminate all taxes for millionaires and above. Without a debt ceiling, there would be nothing to stop them from doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/189 "2023-06-01T16:44:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Suppose Democrats accomplish it, and as soon as Republicans get in the eliminate all taxes for millionaires and above. Without a debt ceiling, there would be nothing to stop them from doing so. I doubt the debt ceiling would give them pause. Plus, if they had the votes to eliminate those taxes, they could also raise the debt limit to avoid any problem. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/190 "2023-06-01T19:03:26Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > The bill to raise the debt ceiling has passed the House 314-117. Republicans voted 149 yeas to 71 nays, Democrats were 165-46. Four members did not vote. On the other hand, on the vote to bring the bill to a vote in the first place, Democrats were 52 in favor and 158 against. Both of the Republicans that did not vote on the final bill voted on the first motion; Banks voted for, and Boebert voted against. The four Republicans that did not vote on the first motion but did on the final bill (DesJarlais, Gonzales, Jackson of Texas, and Mooney) voted against the bill, and the one Democrat (Houlahan) voted for the bill. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/191 "2023-06-02T03:06:06Z")
And it’s through the Senate on a vote of 63-36 and on its way to Biden’s desk. The vote was 44 Democrats voting yea, 4 Democrats voting nay. There were 17 Republicans yeas and 31 nays. Independent Senator Bernie Sanders voted against while independent Senators Angus King and Kristen Sinema voted for the bill. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287/192 "2023-06-02T12:30:57Z")
Seems in the House a whole bunch of people were allowed performative, er, I’m sorry, “principle”, votes to go back home and defend, once the result was ensured. In the procedural motion in the House, as expected, the Dems just lent enough votes to give McC a comfortable cushion to overcome the psycho caucus but then in the final vote everyone seemed comfortable that there would be a majority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/second-guessing-dems-on-the-debt/984287.md?page=9)