# Secret Border Patrol Facebook Page **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358 "2019-07-01T18:30:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/161 "2019-07-02T21:57:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you arguing that Mexicans deserve the kind of abuse they’re receiving in American camps because they illegally came to America? > > I worked in maximum security prisons and it would be illegal to treat convicted murders the way these people are being treated just because they came here looking for work. CBP lacks the resources to house people in conditions on par with State or Federal prisons due to an unexpected surge in the # of people they were required to detain. The Supreme Court for example ruled that California’s prison population was so overcrowded that it was unconstitutional. I don’t think the guards in California were at fault there, which is the claim being made here about Border Patrol Agents. As I said many posts ago, the humanitarian condition in the detention facilities is the fault of Trump. If individual guards are mistreating people they should be punished–I suspect some are, I suspect some prison guards mistreat people and I suspect some police officers mistreat people every day. I don’t make grandiose claims that all of these people should be fired, that they are operating concentration camps etc. I support a return to the status quo ante, which means only _true_ unaccompanied minors are held over for transfer to HHS (most of the current "unaccompanied minors are actually with aunts/uncles, grandparents etc, under previous regulations they would not be considered unaccompanied and their adult guardian and them would be released with orders to return for later adjudication of their immigration status); I also support a return to anyone who isn’t found to have a previous record of being a felon and who has turned themselves in as a refugee be released pending their immigration hearing. We used that system for many years and it largely worked better than this. But the guards don’t make the call, which as someone who has worked as a guard, I suspect you know. If you were given more prisoners than you could humanely house, you know you would not have the legal option to just unilaterally open the prison gates. These guards are grunts, they don’t make these decisions. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/162 "2019-07-02T22:11:18Z")
I repeat, the Germans who worked for the Nazi government in order to make a living and get ahead instead of hatred of minorities were still rightly called Nazis. “Just following orders” is proverbially no excuse for following orders that are human rights abuses. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/163 "2019-07-02T22:13:01Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > CBP lacks the resources to house people in conditions on par with State or Federal prisons due to an unexpected surge in the # of people they were required to detain. Factually untrue. [There was no surge](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/04/10/illegal-immigration-to-america-is-rising-again). At best there was a bounce back to previous, wholly predictable (and previously more or less handled, certainly dealt with without concentration camps) levels. ETA : [different cite](https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/) showing that, no, yeah, it used to be much worse, it’s certainly not Teh Worsest under Trump, and yet previous administrations didn’t resort to ripping children away from their guardians or concentration camps. For Some Reason. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/164 "2019-07-02T22:14:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought you had gotten it the last time you made this mistake-apparently not. I made no mistake. but shh, czarcasm, when someone here posts and use the quote function so it says “Originally posted by President trump” trump didnt really post here, they were just quoting him. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/165 "2019-07-02T22:16:34Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > No you didn’t. > > Video link, time stamp. > > Let’s have it. “At 2:05 in THIS video, she says the word”. Something like that. > > C’mon! You can do it! Perhaps back to the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/166 "2019-07-02T22:17:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I made no mistake. but shh, czarcasm, when someone here posts and use the quote function so it says “Originally posted by President trump” trump didnt really post here, they were just quoting him. > > :rolleyes: And a newspaper publishing something said in an opinion piece still isn’t the same as the newspaper saying the opinion piece. They’re just quoting the author of the opinion piece. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/167 "2019-07-02T22:19:01Z")
If I had a lack of resources, I’d probably not turn down all the offered donations. Defending this shit is reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/168 "2019-07-02T22:20:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Perhaps back to the OP? Where, again, the loaded word “Nazi” was added by someone other than AOC. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/169 "2019-07-02T22:20:36Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > If I had a lack of resources, I’d probably not turn down all the offered donations. > > Defending this shit is reprehensible. Also that. They’re doing this shit because they \*\*WANT \*\*to, because they deliberately sought out to do this, and [because they’re set to profit from it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siOBkdifgFc). And they don’t care about anything beyond that. Not because they have to, or it’s the only way, or their hands are regretfully tied by circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/170 "2019-07-02T22:23:00Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > And a newspaper publishing something said in an opinion piece still isn’t the same as the newspaper saying the opinion piece. Yes, that’s exactly what it is. Now, if i had said the Examiner _supported_ that idea, then that would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/171 "2019-07-02T22:23:41Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I repeat, the Germans who worked for the Nazi government in order to make a living and get ahead instead of hatred of minorities were still rightly called Nazis. “Just following orders” is proverbially no excuse for following orders that are human rights abuses. That isn’t comparable because we aren’t committing genocide, these are not concentration camps, and people are only being held temporarily. If we were running concentration camps the comparison would be apt, we aren’t and it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/172 "2019-07-02T22:33:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly what it is. So [this opinion defending Denise McAllister’s homophobic remarks](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/denise-mcallister-tweets-werent-homophobic-they-were-righteously-angry) was also said by the Examiner rather than being the sole opinion of Eddie Scarry? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/173 "2019-07-02T22:34:45Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > That isn’t comparable because we aren’t committing genocide, Concentration camps aren’t necessarily Extermination Camps. > [@](#): > > these are not concentration camps, Yes, they are. These are centralized facilities designed to house a large number of “undesirable” inmates with minimal supervision or sanitary necessities for budgetary and “eh, fuck 'em” reasons ; and no real prospect of ever getting out in the foreseen future or if the current policy makers have their way. Furthermore the inmates are routinely abused by staff, or by other inmates without the staff lifting a finger to protect the powerless in their care. How is calling them “concentration camps” not applicable, exactly ? Deliberate extermination or working people to death is not necessary for the appellation (e.g. Boer War camps, Japanese-American internment, etc) > [@](#): > > and people are only being held temporarily. Are they ? Have any kids been released ? Not just lost in the shuffle, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/174 "2019-07-02T22:37:07Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > So [this opinion defending Denise McAllister’s homophobic remarks](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/denise-mcallister-tweets-werent-homophobic-they-were-righteously-angry) was also said by the Examiner rather than being the sole opinion of Eddie Scarry? Yes. Was it not printed there? what newspaper said it then, the Times? :dubious::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/175 "2019-07-02T22:37:43Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > CBP lacks the resources to house people in conditions on par with State or Federal prisons due to an unexpected surge in the # of people they were required to detain. The Supreme Court for example ruled that California’s prison population was so overcrowded that it was unconstitutional. I don’t think the guards in California were at fault there, which is the claim being made here about Border Patrol Agents. As I said many posts ago, the humanitarian condition in the detention facilities is the fault of Trump. If individual guards are mistreating people they should be punished–I suspect some are, I suspect some prison guards mistreat people and I suspect some police officers mistreat people every day. I don’t make grandiose claims that all of these people should be fired, that they are operating concentration camps etc. > > I support a return to the status quo ante, which means only _true_ unaccompanied minors are held over for transfer to HHS (most of the current "unaccompanied minors are actually with aunts/uncles, grandparents etc, under previous regulations they would not be considered unaccompanied and their adult guardian and them would be released with orders to return for later adjudication of their immigration status); I also support a return to anyone who isn’t found to have a previous record of being a felon and who has turned themselves in as a refugee be released pending their immigration hearing. We used that system for many years and it largely worked better than this. But the guards don’t make the call, which as someone who has worked as a guard, I suspect you know. If you were given more prisoners than you could humanely house, you know you would not have the legal option to just unilaterally open the prison gates. These guards are grunts, they don’t make these decisions. This administration is on record as advocating for harming migrants (and even migrant children) for deterrent purposes. This isn’t about a lack of funds – it’s about this administration seeing value in hurting migrants. This isn’t a bug, it’s a feature. This is what they want to happen and so they’re making it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/176 "2019-07-02T22:43:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes. Was it not printed there? > > what newspaper said it then, the Times? :dubious::rolleyes: [AOC compares border crisis to Nazi Germany as the US gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants by Eddie Scarry](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/aoc-compares-border-crisis-to-nazi-germany-as-the-us-gives-free-healthcare-to-illegal-immigrants) [Dealing with the devil by Washington Examiner](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/dealing-with-the-devil) See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/177 "2019-07-02T22:50:39Z")
That Eddie Scarry person [kind of sounds like a cunt](https://observer.com/2013/04/im-a-creep-im-a-weirdo/), doesn’t he ? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/178 "2019-07-02T23:18:39Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [AOC compares border crisis to Nazi Germany as the US gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants by Eddie Scarry](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/aoc-compares-border-crisis-to-nazi-germany-as-the-us-gives-free-healthcare-to-illegal-immigrants) > > [Dealing with the devil by Washington Examiner](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/dealing-with-the-devil) > > See the difference? They are both from the Examiner and not the Times? So just what is the **Great Debate** here? That those FB posts are reprehensible? Sure, of course they are, but there’s no debate, just a Pit rant put in GD. That we dont know how many active Border patrol agents actually posted any of those? Sure, but not a debate. That we dont really know if \*any \*of that was posted by a current BP agent? Sure, but not a debate. That we dont know how many asshole trolls actually posted that crap? Sure, but not a debate. So I guess the debate here is whether of not calling a group nazis without actually using the term “nazi” is calling them “nazis”? Hmm, seems settled by **Bone** in post 113: \*\*Bone \*\* Moderating Quote: Originally Posted by jayjay _Thank you, Herr Goebbels…_ This is a warning for personal insults. Calling someone a Nazi is a personal insult. [/moderating] or is the debate when a newspaper prints something, they are “saying” it? (even if it is by no means their official editorial position):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: or is the debate whether those horrible camps are 'concentration camps"? Interesting but not the Ops question. There is no “here”- _here_. There’s no Great Debate here, nor even a notsogreat debate- just a minor pit rant, and a few confused pointless side arguments. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/179 "2019-07-02T23:25:13Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Lol, not at all surprised HD swings in here to defend the **Concentration Camp** guards. Keep digging your way to Hell, boy! Take this sort of remark to The BBQ Pit. Do not post this sort of trash in Great Debates. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358/180 "2019-07-02T23:55:55Z")
You guys have hijacked this enough. No more about Nazis and such. I hope that’s clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-border-patrol-facebook-page/836358.md?page=10)