# Secret Service questions 13-year-old without his parent being present **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481 "2011-05-19T18:07:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/1 "2011-05-19T18:07:02Z")
Take [your choice of links](http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=obama+%22secret+service%22+%28thirteen+OR+13%29&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=) (each describing how a 13-year-old boy was “interrogated” by the Secret Service after making “threatening” remarks on Facebook about President Obama). The remarks? > [@13-year-old kid](#): > > “I was saying how Osama was dead and for Obama to be careful because there could be suicide bombers” Believe me, I really do understand that the Secret Service has to take its job very seriously. As history (unfortunately) shows, there are lots of crazies out there who’d like nothing better than to ‘get noticed’ by popping the Prez. And, I appreciate that even 13-year-olds can pull a trigger or rig a primitive IED. Of course, except for the fact that they’re unlikely to publicize their intent beforehand, I also recognize that there are plenty of potential “terrorists” out there, too. In other words, I would not blame the Secret Service for checking out a 13-year-old kid who uses Facebook to post threats against the President. What I can’'t fathom, though, are how a kid’s posting of words to the effect of “President Obama better be careful because the terrorists will want revenge” justifies scaring the shit out of him (see the links) and, more importantly, questioning him without his mother present. Bad judgment squared. (BTW, does anyone know _exactly_ what the kid posted initially?) ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/2 "2011-05-19T19:03:04Z")
I’m not aware of any law requiring parental presence for questioning of a minor. I’m almost positive there is not federal law or constitutional right, although there may be a relevant state law. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/3 "2011-05-19T19:34:01Z")
It’s not really about the law so much as it is about common sense and fairness. This is especially the case when you consider that the kid (apparently) said nothing that a million other people, including news reporters and political analysts, didn’t also say. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/4 "2011-05-19T19:57:09Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > I’m not aware of any law requiring parental presence for questioning of a minor. I’m almost positive there is not federal law or constitutional right, although there may be a relevant state law. I suspect the issue would come up in the event of criminal charges being filed and an allegedly “voluntary” confession made. Did the child understand the Miranda warnings? For that matter, were the warnings even given? Was a request for counsel made? Were any other rights asserted? All this would be relevant to determine admissability of the confession. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/5 "2011-05-20T12:54:07Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > I’m not aware of any law requiring parental presence for questioning of a minor. I’m almost positive there is not federal law or constitutional right, although there may be a relevant state law. I once saw a documentary called [The Client](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109446/) that strongly implied that it’s a no no. [Cite.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD6U_SsdoPI&t=7m30s) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/6 "2011-05-20T12:59:36Z")
Oakminster is right. (Shocker!!) There is no general rule against questioning a minor _sans_ parents. (Of course, with fifty state laws in play, it’s not impossible that some states explicitly forbid the practice). But since a minor may not be able to meaningfully waive his Miranda rights, and, even if the interrogation is non-custodial, may not understand his right to refuse to answer questions or the inculpatory effect of his answers, it’s quitre possible that his answers would be inadmissible against him. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/7 "2011-05-20T13:33:13Z")
Here’s an example of police questioning a [minor](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/14/48hours/main649381.shtml) without a parent/attorney present. The police got a confession from the girls brother, prosecuted him, lost then later on, prosecuted the actual murderer. I seem to remember that the questioning occurred over a long period of time, and has parents were not allowed access to him. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/8 "2011-05-20T13:44:40Z")
Can’t the Secret Service basically do whatever the fuck they want and its tough noogies for you? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/9 "2011-05-20T13:51:27Z")
How would you know it was the secret service? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/10 "2011-05-20T13:57:28Z")
A minor wouldn’t know to waive his fifth amendment rights, and even if he tried, may have been coerced. I assume the 13 year old has parents who are his Facebook friends, right? ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/11 "2011-05-20T14:02:54Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > (BTW, does anyone know _exactly_ what the kid posted initially?) I’d be really interested in knowing this as well. I suspect what the kid actually wrote was probably more ambiguous than his current statements to reporters. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/12 "2011-05-20T19:22:11Z")
Here’s the element that you’re missing: The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. You’re right that extremists don’t normally advertise their crimes before they do them. But you know who does? Their relatives. Their friends. Their _kids_. “I see you posted this on Facebook. You know, we at the Secret Service take this sort of thing seriously. Are you planning on hurting the President?” “Well…I was just pretending. You know, like Dad does in the garage with his guns.” :dubious: On the other hand, if it’s probably nothing, then the agent is wasting his time. He’s just going through the motions and his lunch break was supposed to be an hour ago. He’s got more important things to worry about. “Were your threatening the President?” “Shouldn’t my Mom be here?” “No. Just answer the question.” “No, I was just warning the President.” “OK. Go back to class.” _Peace out_. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/13 "2011-05-20T19:41:44Z")
Not quite the same thing, but I once served on a federal grand jury, in Kansas. In one case two different thirteen year old girls had to give testimony on a case in which they had alleged a junior high male teacher hadmade unwelcome advances to them. During the testimony parents were not allowed to be present. It’s the way the system works. There was the judge, the federal attorney, the court reporter/recorder, and we the jury. In other words these girls were alone in a roomful of strangers, having to speak about a really disturbing experience. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/14 "2011-05-20T19:47:49Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > A minor wouldn’t know to waive his fifth amendment rights,… He would if his parents taught him civics instead of letting him watch MTV and _iCarly_. He was apparantly sophisticated enough to comprehend the consequences of killing history’s most prolific terrorist. He doesn’t have to understand the many layers of complexity of Miranda rights and the consequences of waiving them (very few people–including majors–do), he just has to know that he shouldn’t say anything in that situation until he talks to his parents/counsel. 13-years-old isn’t minor enough that he couldn’t/shouldn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/15 "2011-05-20T21:20:36Z")
Can we get a ruling on whether or not the secret service even needs to mirandize you? Like someone mentioned upthread, don’t they have far more latittude then the police? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/16 "2011-05-20T22:23:39Z")
Talk about handling with kid gloves! They could’ve just thrown him in a navy brig for a decade or two. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/17 "2011-05-20T22:47:31Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > BTW, does anyone know _exactly_ what the kid posted initially?) [This article](http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-secret-service-interrogates-tacoma-7th-grader-20110517,0,2302915.story) says: > [@](#): > > According to U.S. Attorney spokesperson Emily Langley, who would not go on camera or show us [Vito LaPinta’s] entire post, part of it read “First order, suicide bomb Obama. Suck it!” It sounds a little weird, but he could be telling the truth about his intentions, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![DHMO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@DHMO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DHMO)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/18 "2011-05-21T07:58:08Z")
The way I see it, if a seventeen-year-old is incapable—by law—of giving informed consent to have sex, or sign contracts, or vote, or drink, or buy cigarettes, a thirteen-year-old is, by the same token, incapable—under the same interpretation of the law—of understanding his rights to remain silent and to have counsel, or the consequences of waiving those rights. It also seems it could be interpreted as: A parent might say to their kid, “If you keep playing in the street, you could get hit by a car!” and a neighbor who overheard the warning reported to the police that the parent _threatened to run over her kid with the car_! ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/19 "2011-05-21T08:44:17Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > He would if his parents taught him civics instead of letting him watch MTV and _iCarly_. He was apparantly sophisticated enough to comprehend the consequences of killing history’s most prolific terrorist. He doesn’t have to understand the many layers of complexity of Miranda rights and the consequences of waiving them (very few people–including majors–do), he just has to know that he shouldn’t say anything in that situation until he talks to his parents/counsel. 13-years-old isn’t minor enough that he couldn’t/shouldn’t know that. Ookaaay, but the Courts have [ruled already](http://articles.cnn.com/2003-10-10/justice/findlaw.analysis.colb.miranda_1_miranda-warnings-police-custody-interrogation?_s=PM:LAW) about Miranda warnings and minors. Some of my students have written on _Alvarado_. Again, the Secret Service is out of the scope of what is normal here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481/20 "2011-05-21T12:35:57Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Ookaaay, but the Courts have [ruled already](http://articles.cnn.com/2003-10-10/justice/findlaw.analysis.colb.miranda_1_miranda-warnings-police-custody-interrogation?_s=PM:LAW) about Miranda warnings and minors. Some of my students have written on _Alvarado_. > > Again, the Secret Service is out of the scope of what is normal here. What the hell are you (or your students, I suppose) talking about?? In _Alvarado_, the Supreme Court ruled that the detective questioning Alvarado did NOT have him in custofy, and thus his failure to be read and waive his Miranda rights was not a problem. It also explicitly rejected the suggestion that because he was a minor, Miranda provided any additional protection. In short, Alvarado’s conviction was upheld. Please explain how the Alvardo case has the slightest scintilla of support for the proposition that “the Secret Service is out of the scope of what is normal here.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-service-questions-13-year-old-without-his-parent-being-present/582481.md?page=2)