# Secret societies ... in defense of the NSA **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 1, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860 "2013-06-01T14:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/1 "2013-06-01T14:01:15Z")
Uncle Cece … you’re wrong … what the National Security Agency (which doesn’t exist) does is soooo secret that what you stated is just their COVER STORY. First and foremost, the NSA (if it actually existed) is charged with protecting our own military secrets from falling into enemy hands. As a part of this effort, they intensely study how our enemy tries to get this information. In an amazing act of government efficency, these same people are then asked to use these techniques on our enemy, try to learn their secrets. But make no mistake, this is secondary and of minor importance to the NSA (which doesn’t exist). The military has secrets, and it’s very secret how we protect these secrets … however … there is No Such Agency specifically tasked with this. Why would I lie about this? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/2 "2013-06-01T15:01:06Z")
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. * * * ADDED BY MODERATOR: LINK TO COLUMN IN QUESTION = [Do secret societies control everything? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3108/do-secret-societies-control-everything) ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/3 "2013-06-01T15:05:23Z")
I, for one, welcome our new secret Overlords. (Even if they don’t exist.) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/4 "2013-06-01T16:42:56Z")
I’ve thought that the premise of _True Lies_- that there is a highly secret agency dedicated to preventing nuclear terrorism, by covert ops and assassinations if necessary- was intriguingly plausible. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/5 "2013-06-01T22:16:43Z")
NSA? pft… The NRO existed for 13 before being acknowledged as existing. > **[National Reconnaissance Office](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Reconnaissance_Office)** > > The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) is a member of the United States Intelligence Community and an agency of the United States Department of Defense which designs, builds, launches, and operates the reconnaissance satellites of the U.S. federal government, and provides satellite intelligence to several government agencies, particularly signals intelligence (SIGINT) to the NSA, imagery intelligence (IMINT) to the NGA, and measurement and signature intelligence (MASINT) to the DIA. > NRO is c... ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/6 "2013-06-02T19:28:22Z")
I’m a little slow southener boy … I didn’t know you were joking because I figured if there is no such thing as the NSA … lol how could they have a director and a deputy director and past director’s? [http://www.nsa.gov/about/leadership/former\_directors.shtml](http://www.nsa.gov/about/leadership/former_directors.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/7 "2013-06-03T17:32:25Z")
By the time a Gov’t agency has a [Kid’s Page](http://www.nsa.gov/kids/index.htm), I would call them not-so-secret anymore. The cat’s out of the bag. The indoctrination has to start early, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![hipdadiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hipdadiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hipdadiddy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/8 "2013-06-03T21:26:09Z")
Whenever anybody gets too ga-ga about “What a Great President Harry Truman Turned Out to Be Even Though Everybody Hated Him Back Then”, I like to point out he’s the guy who single-handedly began the construction of our current Secret State by issuing an Executive Order in 1952 that created the NSA. Had a conversation once with a Swami of the Ramakrishna Order (from India) who said America’s national karma, even given slavery and what we did to the natives, was still fairly good prior to the 50’s, thanks to the millions we allowed in over the years to escape various forms of persecution. But sadly, since the creation of the CIA, NSA and God knows what entities we’ve never heard of, it’s been all downhill. The bad now outweighs the good. Food for thought, even though there’s not a goddam thing we can do about it, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/9 "2013-06-03T22:37:15Z")
The NSA’s just the front for the _really_ secret agency. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/10 "2013-06-04T00:33:17Z")
> [@hipdadiddy](#): > > Had a conversation once with a Swami of the Ramakrishna Order (from India) who said America’s national karma, even given slavery and what we did to the natives, was still fairly good prior to the 50’s, thanks to the millions we allowed in over the years to escape various forms of persecution. But sadly, since the creation of the CIA, NSA and God knows what entities we’ve never heard of, it’s been all downhill. The bad now outweighs the good. Well I, for one, am glad that there are qualified professionals to keep track of this vital metric. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/11 "2013-06-04T08:06:46Z")
hipdadiddy writes: \> Whenever anybody gets too ga-ga about “What a Great President Harry \> Truman Turned Out to Be Even Though Everybody Hated Him Back Then”, I like \> to point out he’s the guy who single-handedly began the construction of our \> current Secret State by issuing an Executive Order in 1952 that created the NSA. Truman did not actually create the NSA. He renamed the Armed Forces Security Agency, which was a consolidation of the Army Security Agency, the Naval Security Group, and the Air Force Security Service, each of which can be traced back at least to units that existed during World War II: > **[National Security Agency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency)** > > The National Security Agency (NSA) is a national-level intelligence agency of the United States Department of Defense, under the authority of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI). The NSA is responsible for global monitoring, collection, and processing of information and data for foreign and domestic intelligence and counterintelligence purposes, specializing in a discipline known as signals intelligence (SIGINT). The NSA is also tasked with the protection of U.S. communications networks a... If you want to blame a President for the growth of the entire Intelligence Community in the U.S., you have a lot of choices: > **[United States Intelligence Community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community)** > > The United States Intelligence Community (IC) is a group of separate United States government intelligence agencies and subordinate organizations that work both separately and collectively to conduct intelligence activities which support the foreign policy and national security interests of the United States. Member organizations of the IC include intelligence agencies, military intelligence, and civilian intelligence and analysis offices within federal executive departments. > The IC is overse... At least every President since World War II has, in effect, supported the existence of the Intelligence Community. (There were intelligence activities in the U.S. even before that, and intelligence activities have existed in many countries for a long time.) Whether the Intelligence Community in the U.S. is a good or bad thing, the fact is that nobody in any power has significantly reduced it in size since at least World War II, and in general it has been steadily increasing in size over that period. According to _The Washington Post_, there are now 854,000 people in the U.S. with top secret clearances, 29% of whom are contractors. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/12 "2013-06-04T21:12:28Z")
Of course, the reason why no President can reduce the size of the intelligence bureaucracy, is that as soon as Americans are killed somewhere, the intelligence agencies are blamed for not sniffing it out and stopping it ahead of time. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![smokefoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@smokefoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smokefoot)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/13 "2013-06-05T18:20:00Z")
The Federal Reserve isn’t that secretive - they publish their minutes 3 weeks after every meeting. These minutes show everything they are worried about and what things they disagree on in excruciating detail. ---
**Author:** ![hipdadiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hipdadiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hipdadiddy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/14 "2013-06-05T19:30:58Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Well I, for one, am glad that there are qualified professionals to keep track of this vital metric. As we all should be. The most attractive thing about Hinduism to me is that, basically, they’re right about everything: evolution, dark matter, subatomic particles, energy and matter being essentially the same, the endless cycle of Big Bangs and Big Contractions, you name it–thousands of years before western scientists had a clue. 'Course, this is all a bit off topic…but worth checking out anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/15 "2013-06-05T23:07:49Z")
Well, they said a bunch of things that, in retrospect, can be twisted into vaguely resembling those things, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/16 "2013-06-06T01:27:26Z")
Could you tell us the passage in _The Mahabharata_ where dark matter is predicted? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/17 "2013-06-06T01:40:32Z")
> [@hipdadiddy](#): > > The most attractive thing about Hinduism to me is that, basically, they’re right about everything: evolution, dark matter, subatomic particles, energy and matter being essentially the same, the endless cycle of Big Bangs and Big Contractions, you name it–thousands of years before western scientists had a clue. Except they said no such thing, but hey, why let that get in the way. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/18 "2013-06-06T02:52:21Z")
George Washington was arguably the creator of intelligence as we know it. He realized that the Revolution was a new type of war, where light-cavalry scouting of enemy dispositions and secret letters from ambassadors wouldn’t be enough. (He had an actual head of intelligence; the British just made it one more assignment for the Adjutant General, which is how poor John André ended up behind American lines in 1780.) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/19 "2013-06-06T12:09:36Z")
**smokefoot** : first, welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, we’re glad you found us. Second, since there was already a thread on this column (about secret societies that operate in the open), I’ve merged your post into that thread (Pos #13 above.) Helps other readers to keep topics together, more or less. Again, as I say, welcome! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860/20 "2013-06-07T06:11:35Z")
A small note but maybe Ed should take another pass at that column. > [@](#): > > But think: what businesses are these people are in? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secret-societies-in-defense-of-the-nsa/659860.md?page=2)