# Secretly recording the gay roommate - an update - Guilty verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 16, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988 "2012-03-16T18:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/1 "2012-03-16T18:13:08Z")
Earlier threads here: [Secretly recording the gay roommate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=580153) [Secretly recording the gay roommate - an update - grand jury indictment](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=605483) From [Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/16/us-crime-rutgers-idUSBRE82F0VP20120316), today: > [@](#): > > A jury convicted Dharun Ravi of hate crimes on Friday after he used a computer webcam to view his Rutgers University roommate kissing another man in a case that sparked a national outcry over gay bullying. > > \ > > After 12 hours of deliberations over three days, the jury convicted Ravi on all 15 counts. Ravi covered his mouth with his hand and his eyes widenened as the verdict was read in a courtroom in Middlesex County, New Jersey. > > Juror Bruno Ferreira said it was “very difficult” to reach the guilty verdicts on the hate crime counts, which were tied to Ravi using and attempting to use a webcam twice to spy on his roommate’s encounter with an older man in their dorm room. > > “Thinking about it not being done once, being done twice, not just on one day,” was what convinced the seven-woman, five-man panel to convict on the hate crime charges, said Ferreira, who appeared to be in his 30s. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/2 "2012-03-16T18:43:48Z")
He’s apparently not a US citizen, so this could trigger his deportation at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/3 "2012-03-16T18:59:40Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > He’s apparently not a US citizen, so this could trigger his deportation at some point. He might have to do jail time here first. THEN he gets exported. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/4 "2012-03-16T19:04:47Z")
I cannot \*believe \*he turned down the plea deal: > [@](#): > > Before the trial, Ravi and his lawyers had rejected a plea bargain that would have spared him from prison. He would have gotten probation and 600 hours of community service and would have been given help in avoiding deportation. A Homer Simpson “_d’oh!_” is called for on his part. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/5 "2012-03-16T19:11:05Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I cannot \*believe \*he turned down the plea deal: I don’t know enough about the legal system, but does that imply he really didn’t think he did anything wrong or just that he thought he could beat enough of the counts that anything he was guilty for would would result in less then 600 hours of community service? Seems like he could knock that out over the course of a year. I haven’t followed the case (and really haven’t thought about since it first happened). I’m guessing they tried to prove that he was just a pervert who liked recording his roommate having sex…oh and he happened to be gay as opposed to “my roommate is gay so lets all make fun of him” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/6 "2012-03-16T19:15:03Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I haven’t followed the case (and really haven’t thought about since it first happened). I’m guessing they tried to prove that he was just a pervert who liked recording his roommate having sex…oh and he happened to be gay as opposed to “my roommate is gay so lets all make fun of him” Ha. No, they evidently said he was worried the roommate’s hookup was going to rob him and webcammed it for safety. It sounds like an idiotic defense, but I guess they didn’t have a lot of other options - because wow, that was a very kind plea deal. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/7 "2012-03-16T19:16:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ha. No, they evidently said he was worried the roommate’s hookup was going to rob him and webcammed it for safety. It sounds like an idiotic defense, but I guess they didn’t have a lot of other options - because wow, that was a very kind plea deal. But wasn’t he broadcasting this on the internet (IIRC)? Was was his reasoning for that? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/8 "2012-03-16T20:11:47Z")
I’m both delighted and horrified by this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/9 "2012-03-16T20:29:32Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > But wasn’t he broadcasting this on the internet (IIRC)? Was was his reasoning for that? The idea being that he could watch while he wasn’t in the room. Like I said, it was a bad defense and he should’ve copped a plea. Considering all the outrage surrounding this case - which is what got Ravi convicted - it’s sort of amazing that he got a lenient plea offer and dumbfounding that he said no. I haven’t followed the case in very much depth, but I also think it’s interesting that even though Ravi really did not cause Clementi’s death and was probably not committing what you might normally think of as a hate crime, the jury pretty much had to convict him according to the laws. He also fucked it up further by being a really unsympathetic defendant and by trying to cover it all up by talking to a witness and altering his Twitter feed. But I also don’t think he deserves 10 years in jail and deportation over it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/10 "2012-03-16T20:41:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But I also don’t think he deserves 10 years in jail and deportation over it. The deportation wouldn’t bother me. 10 years in prison for what would otherwise be treated as civil offenses does bother me. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/11 "2012-03-16T20:41:04Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > But wasn’t he broadcasting this on the internet (IIRC)? Was was his reasoning for that? No. He tweeted a couple of people that he had done it, but the video was not recorded or uploaded anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![DeweyDecibel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DeweyDecibel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeweyDecibel)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/12 "2012-03-16T20:41:49Z")
I followed this case a bit when it first made the news, but then forgot about it. I wasn’t aware he was offered such a good plea deal, but since he was and turned it down, I have decided he is a complete moron who deserves the full brunt of the sentence. I had been thinking it was possibly a bit harsh, but wow. He must have no remorse and really think he was right to turn down that plea, so I’m happy with the verdict. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/13 "2012-03-16T21:10:21Z")
I think his problem was on the second occasion. The first time he merely showed the stream to friends but the second time he sent out a message ahead of time to his friends to access his webcam (which he had remotely rigged to accept) so that they could watch. That said, I don’t think it was a hate crime. I personally think that he was a typical teenager who found it salacious that his rommate was having sex and decided to spy on him also with some friends. What is a shame is that he apparently was quite intelligent and had good computer skills and could potentially be a productive member of society. I had thought that the plea bargain he was offered did not protect him from deportation which is why he turned it down. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/14 "2012-03-16T21:17:22Z")
> [@DeweyDecibel](#): > > He must have no remorse and really think he was right to turn down that plea, so I’m happy with the verdict. Eh. You can be remorseful and still think you’re not guilty of what you’re being charged with. It’s hard to get a read on the guy’s feelings, and they’re not really the point. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/15 "2012-03-16T21:25:38Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I think his problem was on the second occasion. The first time he merely showed the stream to friends but the second time he sent out a message ahead of time to his friends to access his webcam (which he had remotely rigged to accept) so that they could watch. > > That said, I don’t think it was a hate crime. I personally think that he was a typical teenager who found it salacious that his rommate was having sex and decided to spy on him also with some friends. > > What is a shame is that he apparently was quite intelligent and had good computer skills and could potentially be a productive member of society. I had thought that the plea bargain he was offered did not protect him from deportation which is why he turned it down. I don’t understand the hate crime angle of this at all or what it had to do with sexual orientation. He didn’t try to blackmail his roommate or intimidate him in any way. It’s a clear case of invading his privacy and that is what the conviction should involve. I haven’t followed the actual trial so there may be more to this than the article I read but there is no deliberate attempt to coerce the roommate into killing himself. ---
**Author:** ![stolatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stolatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolatt)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/16 "2012-03-16T21:45:11Z")
His defense was a total load of crap. You see, Dharun was too young to know how to handle having a gay roommate, so he acted immaturely. Yup, he’s so dumb he ended up at Rutgers. He was only trying to monitor his possessions because his roommate’s guest looked “scruffy and homeless”. Which might be the case if you pointed the camera on YOUR side of the room, not his. I’m also sure his nonchalant attitude during the proceedings did not escape the jury either. While he wasn’t being charged in any way with Tyler’s death, it probably would have been appropriate to act at least vaguely concerned. Between the weak defense and the poor appearance in court, he got what he deserved. Yes, I would be a terrible lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/17 "2012-03-16T21:46:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I haven’t followed the actual trial so there may be more to this than the article I read but there is no deliberate attempt to coerce the roommate into killing himself. He wasn’t charged with causing Clementi’s death, deliberately or not. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/18 "2012-03-16T21:55:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t understand the hate crime angle of this at all or what it had to do with sexual orientation. He didn’t try to blackmail his roommate or intimidate him in any way. It’s a clear case of invading his privacy and that is what the conviction should involve. I haven’t followed the actual trial so there may be more to this than the article I read but there is no deliberate attempt to coerce the roommate into killing himself. [Here’s the explanation of the charges from the New York Times:](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/nyregion/defendant-guilty-in-rutgers-case.html?hp) > [@](#): > > Mr. Ravi, 20, was not charged in Mr. Clementi’s death. He faced 15 counts of invasion of privacy, bias intimidation, tampering with evidence and a witness, and hindering apprehension. The jury found that he did not intend to intimidate Mr. Clementi the first night he turned on the webcam to watch. But the jury concluded that Mr. Clementi had reason to believe he had been targeted because he was gay, and in one charge, the jury found that Mr. Ravi had known Mr. Clementi would feel intimidated by his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/19 "2012-03-16T22:41:33Z")
About what I’ve read so far. Still no explanation of why it’s a hate crime or that his roommate was targeted because he was gay. They should have thrown the book at him to the extend he invaded his roommate’s privacy but I haven’t seen the connection to a hate crime. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/20 "2012-03-16T22:47:43Z")
I’ve been keeping up with [Slate.com](http://Slate.com)’s recent coverage of this. The decision the jury had to make was a terrible one. On one hand, not convicting him would let people think that intimidating gays, when they are already tormented by their peers often to the point of suicide, is ok. On the other hand, it seems like without Clementi’s suicide, this would just have been a prank and earned no more than a reprimand. I am not now as bloodthirsty in calling for Ravi’s punishment as I was before the trial, having learned more of the situation. But the jury essentially had to decide either that it was ok to intimidate gays or not, and so they made their choice. I know that I could not have easily decided. I wish, in cases like this, the defendants are more willing to testify on their own behalf. Yes, the same [Slate.com](http://Slate.com) coverage mentioned this and how usually that’s a terrible idea, subjecting the defendant to a cross that would make them justify all their worst mistakes. But in this case, I think we needed to hear some remorse, some repentance from Ravi’s own mouth. The fact that he apparently lied and acted like an uncaring twit did not help him at all, nor did turning down that incredible no-jail deal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988.md?page=2)