# Secretly recording the gay roommate - an update - Guilty verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 16, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988 "2012-03-16T18:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/21 "2012-03-16T22:51:03Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I wish, in cases like this, the defendants are more willing to testify on their own behalf. Yes, the same [Slate.com](http://Slate.com) coverage mentioned this and how usually that’s a terrible idea, subjecting the defendant to a cross that would make them justify all their worst mistakes. But in this case, I think we needed to hear some remorse, some repentance from Ravi’s own mouth. The fact that he apparently lied and acted like an uncaring twit did not help him at all, nor did turning down that incredible no-jail deal. I think once you’ve lied and attempted to coerce witnesses and falsify evidence, you are always a goner on the witness stand. “Are you lying now, or were you lying then Ravi? How would we tell the difference?” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/22 "2012-03-16T22:52:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > About what I’ve read so far. > > Still no explanation of why it’s a hate crime or that his roommate was targeted because he was gay. They should have thrown the book at him to the extend he invaded his roommate’s privacy but I haven’t seen the connection to a hate crime. I’m a supporter of hate crime laws. I think that, first, its not the government legislating what you are thinking any more than having intent can be brought up in a murder case. Second, I think that without the suicide, this definitely would not have been a hate crime case, or if it was, he wouldn’t have been convicted of such. Third, I think that while distasteful, you have to consider that Clementi killed himself, and the extent of that crime is precipitated by Ravi’s actions, and you have to try and get him for the strongest possible conviction instead of throwing your hands up and blaming the victim and that he was too weak to handle a little teasing. Lastly, his defense about worrying about his stuff getting stolen was idiotic, and his attempts at covering up what he did showed he knew the seriousness of what he did. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I think once you’ve lied and attempted to coerce witnesses and falsify evidence, you are always a goner on the witness stand. > > “Are you lying now, or were you lying then Ravi? How would we tell the difference?” Then he had better brush up on his acting skills. We have hindsight to point to that his defense didn’t do enough, but with all the testimony from his friends, and his own evidence tampering, I think he could have come across as a bit sympathetic. Who could predict that watching your roommate have sex on a webcam could lead to a suicide and up to 10 years in prison? He could have played it off like he was extremely sorry, didn’t think through his actions, and copped to the lying and tampering as just a scared kid. He was only 19 when this happened, I would have believed it ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/23 "2012-03-16T22:59:08Z")
I have to agree with **Magiver** on this one. There may be aspects to the case that I missed, but I don’t really see the hate crime angle. For me, the big thing is that I don’t see this guy acting any differently if his roommate came home with a woman. The guy’s still a massive douche, and unbelievably stupid for passing up that plea bargain, but hate crime? I don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/24 "2012-03-16T23:42:39Z")
> [@stolatt](#): > > Yup, he’s so dumb he ended up at Rutgers. Do you actually know anything about Rutgers? That’s like saying “Yup, he’s so dumb he ended up at the University of South Carolina.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/25 "2012-03-16T23:42:51Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Who could predict that watching your roommate have sex on a webcam could lead to a suicide and up to 10 years in prison? He could have played it off like he was extremely sorry, didn’t think through his actions, and copped to the lying and tampering as just a scared kid. He was only 19 when this happened, I would have believed it Kinda my thinking. This kid is dumbass times infinity but college kids aren’t always known for making the best decisions. Covering it up isn’t an indication of intent to cause harm, just the realization that it was an invasion of privacy. If he turned down a get-out-of-jail-free card then he didn’t understand the seriousness of what he did. Regardless of how much time he’ll have to contemplate his mistake it won’t be anything compared to the knowledge of his roommate’s suicide. That will haunt him forever. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/26 "2012-03-16T23:59:15Z")
He should get 10 years for stupidity just for turning down that plea bargain. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/27 "2012-03-17T00:21:02Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > That said, I don’t think it was a hate crime. I personally think that he was a typical teenager who found it salacious that his rommate was having sex and decided to spy on him also with some friends. I agree. The long \*New Yorker \*piece on this from a month or two ago came to a similar conclusion. It wasn’t the hetero sex god lording over the sad gay weakling – indeed, in terms of sexual “success” (from an 18-year-old’s point of view), the suicide victim _was_ successful, while the convicted hate crimer, despite his braggadacio, was apparently _not_. That may have actually had a lot to do with the convicted fellow’s actions. I was immediately reminded of the Eric Idle character on that Monty Python sketch from 40 years ago…“Say no more, say no more…eh? eh? wink wink, nudge nudge?..so, tell me, what’s it like?” ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/28 "2012-03-17T00:37:43Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > He should get 10 years for stupidity just for turning down that plea bargain. When you are offered a plea bargain in a case that has garnered a global audience, you should probably take it. I am glad for this thread update. I have often thought about this case, but did not know what was going on, if anything. Wasn’t there a girl arrested as well ? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/29 "2012-03-17T00:45:59Z")
He should appeal. Some of the convictions are barely even negligence crimes, which I’m not sure will survive constitutional scrutiny as the jury charge was worded. Would be curious to hear a New Jersey law expert speak to them (especially the first bias intimidation conviction). ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/30 "2012-03-17T01:04:07Z")
The girl took the plea bargain. > [@](#): > > Ms. Wei was admitted to a pretrial-intervention program, in which she must perform 300 hours of community service over the next three years, testify at any proceedings, participate in counseling to deter cyberbullying and cooperate with the authorities. If she complies, the charges against her will be dropped From [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/07/nyregion/in-rutgers-suicide-case-ex-student-gets-plea-deal.html). ---
**Author:** ![stolatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@stolatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolatt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/31 "2012-03-17T01:10:43Z")
Labrador, you’re right. Somehow I mistakenly thought it was an Ivy League school. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/32 "2012-03-17T01:26:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I have to agree with **Magiver** on this one. There may be aspects to the case that I missed, but I don’t really see the hate crime angle. For me, the big thing is that I don’t see this guy acting any differently if his roommate came home with a woman. The guy’s still a massive douche, and unbelievably stupid for passing up that plea bargain, but hate crime? I don’t see it. I haven’t followed the case much. Was the roommate closeted about his sexuality, or out? That would make a difference to me whether it’s the same as if it were a woman. Banging a woman when you’re 19 and having the video get out would be more of a trophy than a reason to commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/33 "2012-03-17T01:52:39Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > He should get 10 years for stupidity just for turning down that plea bargain. Or maybe for arrogance? (I’m wondering, not declaring.) FWIW, a few weeks ago the New Yorker had a very interesting and thought provoking article about this case. Edit: as someone already mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/34 "2012-03-17T02:03:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The deportation wouldn’t bother me. 10 years in prison for what would otherwise be treated as civil offenses does bother me. It’s “up to” 10 years. He’ll probably do more time than Paris Hilton, but it’s unlikely he’ll actually get 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/35 "2012-03-17T02:08:05Z")
> [@stolatt](#): > > Labrador, you’re right. Somehow I mistakenly thought it was an Ivy League school. It once was. It’s just a state school, but that doesn’t make it a slob. \ ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/36 "2012-03-17T02:18:13Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It once was. > > It’s just a state school, but that doesn’t make it a slob. > > \ Not a slob, just an average state school. I’ve met a lot of people who seem to think they’re ivy league caliber, and I was getting that vibe earlier. I used to think the same thing, actually. I also went to a state school, so I wasn’t trying to kick Rutgers particularly hard. ETA: Are you sure Rutgers used to be a member of the Ivy League? I didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/37 "2012-03-17T02:28:13Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > It’s “up to” 10 years. He’ll probably do more time than Paris Hilton, but it’s unlikely he’ll actually get 10 years. Just saw an analyst on TV say that given the circumstances and the judge, he will probably serve some prison time. I doubt it would be 10 years. But the kid was a visitor in our country, and not a very good one. We should just send him back and not spend any more money on him. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/38 "2012-03-17T02:38:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > But the kid was a visitor in our country, and not a very good one. We should just send him back and not spend any more money on him. Well yes, but as I understand it he has been here since the age of 3. He has lived nearly all his life in this country. It could be a hell of a shock to send him back now. I have no idea if he still has family or has ever visited India. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/39 "2012-03-17T03:11:12Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > Well yes, but as I understand it he has been here since the age of 3. He has lived nearly all his life in this country. It could be a hell of a shock to send him back now. > > I have no idea if he still has family or has ever visited India. He should have thought of that before videotaping his roomie. He was old enough to realize he wasn’t a citizen, and could be deported for committing a crime. I really don’t think the dumbass should be treated too harshly, but a life sentence in India sounds appropriate in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/40 "2012-03-17T04:12:43Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I haven’t followed the case much. Was the roommate closeted about his sexuality, or out? He had recently come out to his parents, who disapproved, and he was out at school. > [@Magiver](#): > > Regardless of how much time he’ll have to contemplate his mistake it won’t be anything compared to the knowledge of his roommate’s suicide. That will haunt him forever. Bear in mind that we don’t know what pushed Clementi to suicide. It could have been his mother’s disapproval, or it could have been something humiliating that happened with the man that he brought home. Note, for instance, that there were files on Clementi’s computer that he’d created after the incident, titled “Gah” and “Sorry,” but the court ruled that they were not relevant to the case against Ravi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988.md?page=3)