# Secretly recording the gay roommate - an update - Guilty verdict **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 16, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988 "2012-03-16T18:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/61 "2012-03-18T00:32:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t think there’s any conflict between what I wrote and what you wrote. In most cases, the judge does go along with the plea bargain. If it weren’t so, no defendant would accept such a deal. My parenthetical point was just that the judge doesn’t _have_ to honor the terms of the plea bargain. Rereading your post, I see you are correct. So I guess I am too 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/62 "2012-03-18T02:14:44Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Is it possible- and if it is possible, is it likely- for somebody to be offered a plea deal between conviction and appeal? > > Nobody’s interest is really served by this guy doing several years in prison, and deporting somebody who has lived here almost all of his life sounds like something J. Edgar Hoover would have done in the 1920s. I’m guessing at this point, however, he’d take 2,000 hours of community service plus court costs and maybe a month in jail or whatever. > > The worst accounts of Ravi imply he’s a spoiled rich asshole. I really really really hate spoiled rich assholes, they’re somewhere between Illinois Nazis and Dittoheads on my list of dislikes (and that’s not discounting that one person can be all three of those), but I don’t think they should go to prison. > > Also, as a gay man I’m actually afraid of what extending his sentence for ‘bias’ could do for gay rights. Try him for what he did, not why he did it. I wish the prosecutor himself would drop the bias components. I dunno, he sounds a bit worse than a spoilt rich arsehole to me. The stuff he did would have been horrible no matter the genders involved - I mean, would it be OK if he’d encouraged people to watch his male room-mate have sex with a woman? That is a pretty big invasion of privacy. He does talk a lot about it being a gay encounter, but yeah, I agree - I’m not sure it should be a factor, or not a big factor. The only other evidence for him being homophobic is basically him being a teenage boy. I’m not saying all teenage boys say the stuff he did, but a hell of a lot do, especially a few times in over 2,000 tweets. It’s horrible, but not evidence of a teenage male being unusually homophobic. Still, evidence tampering is never going to be looked on favourably by the courts. Neither’s attempting to coerce witnesses. No matter what he did, those extra actions will not make judges like you. Ten years is FAR too much though. Why on Earth didn’t he accept the plea deal? Christ, his lawyer must have been terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/63 "2012-03-18T02:38:11Z")
> [@velvetjones](#): > > I doubt that Ravi would be charged with anything if Clementi hadn’t committed suicide. If he was alive, we wouldn’t be talking about this because no one would know about it except a few students at Rutgers. Probably true. > [@Baker](#): > > Well then, as soon as he hit eighteen he should have started whatever the process is to become an American citizen. I don’t know if it matters, but he turned 18 around six months before this happened. So I’m not sure he would be a citizen at this point anyway. Even if he could’ve been a citizen, deportation seems ridiculous. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Why on Earth didn’t he accept the plea deal? Christ, his lawyer must have been terrible. The lawyer told him about the offer and probably told him he should take it. He chose not to. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/64 "2012-03-18T05:35:03Z")
Will he be out on bail pending appeal or has he been taken into custody? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/65 "2012-03-18T05:35:59Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Will he be out on bail pending appeal or has he been taken into custody? He’s still out on bail, but has had to hand over his passport. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/66 "2012-03-18T09:59:23Z")
A lot of people in this thread take this so seriously, when to me its nothing but teenage pranks. Hell I could see myself at that age doing exactly what was done whether the roomate was having sex with a man or a woman. I think everyone is letting the fact the room mate is gay turn this into the most serious case of the century, when it is really nothing. I have seen people spread nude photos of their ex GF/BF on Facebook or photos of sex acts on the internet and while it is cruel it isn’t 10 years of prison time cruel. I expect the appeal will come out with a saner verdict. Its terrible the room mate killed himself, but it should have no bearing on the case. If you let the responses of people determine sentencing better hope no one you’ve wronged commits suicide! ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/67 "2012-03-18T12:25:00Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I think everyone is letting the fact the room mate is gay turn this into the most serious case of the century, when it is really nothing. It _was_ nothing… until the roommate killed himself without telling anybody why. Then SOMETHING HAD TO BE DONE, even if that something doesn’t really jive with the criminal actions that Rhavi did. Calling this a hate crime is ridiculous because an asshole like that would have spied on his roommate having sex with anybody, male or female. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/68 "2012-03-18T14:02:14Z")
Personally I don’t give a rat’s ass if anyone is gay, straight or otherwise. The lack of respect for privacy (and the resultant suicide) are the issues here. It’s well established that if your criminal conduct results in far greater damage than would normally be expected you are still on the hook for it. So for the defendant I say tough shit. I worked the [Huguely Trial](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yeardley_Love) last month and we had another case of ‘wealthy boy who is used to getting his was commits a crime he didn’t plan to commit.’ In the end it’s cause & effect. Action resulted in death, (by the victim’s hand granted but any considerate human could see the possibility) and so culprit must pay. Personally I would like to see bias crime penalties removed from law because I think a truly equal society would find the sexual orientation and race issues moot, but that’s probably a few years down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/69 "2012-03-18T14:02:39Z")
I think this _is_ serious. Twenty years ago college hijinx weren’t facilitated by sophisticated intrusive technologies and there wasn’t an internet to make them permanently available to the world. I think it’s a very good lesson that intruding on a classmate’s privacy in this matter can land you in prison. Now whether it should be six months in prison or 10 years in prison is a different question. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/70 "2012-03-18T17:35:41Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > It _was_ nothing… until the roommate killed himself without telling anybody why. I don’t agree. Setting up a camera to spy on a person having sex in their own bed is not “nothing.” While it _may_ be true that nothing would have been done about this if Clementi hadn’t killed himself, i actually think that is part of the problem. Clementi should have been able to take this case to the police in the knowledge that they would arrest and prosecute Ravi under the same privacy violations that he has been charged with in this case. I don’t really hold Ravi responsible for Clementi’s suicide. We may never know what combination of factors led to the sort of despair required to throw himself off the GW bridge. And i don’t think it qualifies as a hate crime. But, whatever actions Clementi took or did not take in the aftermath of the spying incident, i don’t think that they change the severity of Ravi’s own infractions. I’d be happy enough if the hate crime enhancements were removed or rejected by a jury on appeal, but i still think that Ravi deserves criminal punishment for the actual things that he actually did. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/71 "2012-03-18T17:47:59Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > So for the defendant I say tough shit. > > I worked the [Huguely Trial](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yeardley_Love) last month and we had another case of ‘wealthy boy who is used to getting his was commits a crime he didn’t plan to commit.’ > > In the end it’s cause & effect. Action resulted in death, (by the victim’s hand granted but any considerate human could see the possibility) and so culprit must pay. > . You can’t seriously be comparing the cases, the one you linked to is a violent assault involving bashing someone’s head into a wall after a history of threats and violent attacks. > [@](#): > > Huguely and Love dated briefly, but had broken up. At the Charlottesville police station, Huguely waived his Miranda rights and narrated graphic details of his assaulting Love, stating that he kicked open Love’s locked bedroom door and “shook Love, and her head repeatedly hit the wall”.[9] Evidence that police seized from Huguely’s apartment included two Apple laptop computers, a spiral notebook, two white socks, bathroom and entryway rugs, and a Virginia lacrosse shirt with a red stain. Investigators also followed leads of domestic violence between Huguely and Love, including: threatening e-mail and text messages that Huguely sent to Love post-breakup; a violent encounter between the couple that was broken up by several visiting lacrosse players from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill; and an incident in which Huguely attacked Love while drunk but did not recall having hit her. An unnamed student told the New York Daily News that Huguely and Love broke up after the drunken Huguely assaulted Love As an aside the movie American Pie which was released in 1999 and was a smash hit had as a plot point the protagonists setting up a secret webcam so people could watch one of them have sex, this heinous act appeared in a mainstream film! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/72 "2012-03-18T18:03:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think this _is_ serious. Twenty years ago college hijinx weren’t facilitated by sophisticated intrusive technologies and there wasn’t an internet to make them permanently available to the world. I think it’s a very good lesson that intruding on a classmate’s privacy in this matter can land you in prison. Now whether it should be six months in prison or 10 years in prison is a different question. Of course, we all laughed at it when it happened in _American Pie_. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/73 "2012-03-18T18:21:39Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I don’t agree. Setting up a camera to spy on a person having sex in their own bed is not “nothing.” “Nothing” is the wrong word. But there are laws in place to deal with this kind of spying and a similar incident wouldn’t have gotten the media attention it got if Clementi didn’t kill himself for _ **reasons that are unknown** _ (which I think is important). The court of public opinion long ago decided that Rhavi was responsible for his death and that has influenced the discussion about what he did from the beginning. Punish him for what he actually did. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/74 "2012-03-18T18:28:08Z")
Ravi almost certainly didn’t intend to force Clementi into suicide. However, Ravi DID intend to humiliate and shame Clementi, for whatever reasons. And this sort of humiliation and shame can have consequences for years. Ravi was a complete and utter asshole. He deliberately set up Clementi so as to get some lulz. There were no mitigating circumstances, no excuse for this behavior. I don’t know what punishment is appropriate, but I don’t want to live in a society where people can record others in their most private moments, when the others have taken steps to insure their privacy, and then hold those folks up for ridicule. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/75 "2012-03-18T18:53:52Z")
> [@grude](#): > > A lot of people in this thread take this so seriously, when to me its nothing but teenage pranks. Hell I could see myself at that age doing exactly what was done whether the roomate was having sex with a man or a woman. The fact that you see it as a teenage prank, or that Dharun Ravi might’ve seen it that way and your teenage self might’ve agreed, doesn’t mean it is not serious. Teenagers are not good at evaluating that stuff and they think a lot of fairly horrible shit is OK and funny… as long as it happens to somebody else. It seems to me that Ravi didn’t hate his roommate for being gay, but he was uncomfortable with sharing a room with a gay kid. So he did the kind of thing teenagers sometimes do when they get uncomfortable: he focused on what made his roommate different and sought reassurance from his friends that he was superior and his roommate was weird. That turned into making fun of him in private, which is mean but allowed; mocking him “in private” on Twitter (on a feed his roommate saw), which is legal but stupid and cruel; and by spying on his roommate and inviting people to watch, which is nastier and more invasive and _not_ legal. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/76 "2012-03-18T21:40:28Z")
[QUOTE=grude] As an aside the movie American Pie which was released in 1999 and was a smash hit had as a plot point the protagonists setting up a secret webcam so people could watch one of them have sex, this heinous act appeared in a mainstream film! [/QUOTE] The original version where Jason Biggs was devastated and committed suicide in the next scene didn’t test well- audiences said it made it a little dark for a light comedy- so they reshot it. IIRC _American Pie_ is also the film where a guy mistakes superglue for lube and gets stuck together- the consequences of which would not be comedic to somebody who did them. _That 70s Show_ featured kids smoking pot every week, it’s still illegal and can have potentially disastrous consequences. Besides which, Ravi is also in trouble with evidence and witness tampering. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/77 "2012-03-18T21:58:36Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Besides which, Ravi is also in trouble with evidence and witness tampering. That’s the part that highlights his lack of character, and may have been a big factor with the jury. I get the impression of a spoiled brat who acted without concern for anyone but himself. And in classic manner, he was dragging others into his despicable acts to try and dilute the blame. He deserved to be prosecuted and convicted of something. As I think about this, I realize that even if Ravi spends 10 years in prison, and a life sentence in India, which does seem excessive when viewed objectively, the harm is to our own justice system, and I still have no sympathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/78 "2012-03-19T04:48:24Z")
> [@grude](#): > > You can’t seriously be comparing the cases, the one you linked to is a violent assault involving bashing someone’s head into a wall after a history of threats and violent attacks. Once again, my point was about the ‘wealthy boy who is used to getting his way commits a crime he didn’t plan to commit.’ I stand by it. Having attended the Huguley trial I can say that the defendant didn’t _intend_ to murder the victim, he was a notorious drunk who regularly escaped justice from previous run-ins with the law due to top notch legal representation. I’ll just repeat myself: _In the end it’s cause & effect. Action resulted in death, (by the victim’s hand granted but any considerate human could see the possibility) and so culprit must pay._ ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/79 "2012-03-19T04:58:55Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > Once again, my point was about the ‘wealthy boy who is used to getting his way commits a crime he didn’t plan to commit.’ I stand by it. > > Having attended the Huguley trial I can say that the defendant didn’t _intend_ to murder the victim, he was a notorious drunk who regularly escaped justice from previous run-ins with the law due to top notch legal representation. > > I’ll just repeat myself: _In the end it’s cause & effect. Action resulted in death, (by the victim’s hand granted but any considerate human could see the possibility) and so culprit must pay._ If that is your opinion fair enough, but again a reasonable person could conclude bashing a head into a wall could be fatal and I don’t think it is reasonable to conclude an embarassing video being released would result in suicide. I don’t like the defendant, I don’t know him, but in a country where violent rapists rarely get a decade behind bars this deserves it? What next going after teenagers who spread false and cruel sexual rumors that result in a suicide? Is every high school asshole going to be doing ten to twenty? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988/80 "2012-03-19T05:02:30Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Of course, we all laughed at it when it happened in _American Pie_. We also tend to laugh at the Three Stooges or when people hurt themselves on America’s Funniest Home Videos. What’s your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secretly-recording-the-gay-roommate-an-update-guilty-verdict/615988.md?page=5)