# "Secrets of the Code" -unauthorized guide to mysteries of "The DaVinci Code." **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 27, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178 "2004-07-27T23:39:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/21 "2004-08-01T17:12:07Z")
For cripes sake. _The Davinci Code_ is not intended to present anything as fact, or to present the theory as credible IRL. It’s all just a _premise_ for a _novel_. I don’t see why people are falling all over themselves to “debunk” a work of fiction that _presents_ itself as fiction. There are all kinds of novels which propose unorthodox, or even outright looney premises for historical figures and events. There is ample precedent even for doing so with Christianity. Philip Jose Farmer wrote a novel called _Jesus On Mars_ which proposes that Jesus was an alien from outer space. Does that mean Farmer really believes that or that he needs to be “debunked” or that it’s not ok to enjoy the book as entertainment? Gore Vidal, Norman Mailer and Anthony Burgess have all written fictional takes on Jesus. Christopher Moore wrote a very funny and interesting novel called _Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ’s Childhood Pal_ which imagines all kinds of farcical things regarding Jesus and makes some goofy assertions about history but no one is rushing out to “debunk” it. _Holy Blood, Holy Grail_ is fair game because it presents itself as journalism. (I’m embarrassed to say that I actually bought that book many years ago as well as a sequel whose title escapes me at the moment a couple of years later. I bought them for their entertainment value as well as part of a vain hope for any stray insights or genuinely new ideas) but the DC just presents itself as a novel. I believe that Dan Brown has also written a novel about the Illuminati. He likes conspiracies and thinks they make good fiction. None of this is intended to defend Dan Brown as a _novelist_, btw. I found DC to be quite bad for reasons other than the premise (my wife calls Dan Brown “Umberto Eco for stupid people”) but all the outrage about about a fictional take on Christianity is just a little bit silly, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/22 "2004-08-01T17:42:24Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Video games? 😕 “Gabriel Knight 3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned” and one game that was Templar themed whose title escapes my mind at this moment featured the same “Jesus faked his death and/or knocked up Mary Magdaline, and the Templars guarded their decendants” theory as part of the story line. Oh, and there was that game where you controlled Jesus and had to jump over the rolling crosses while climbing up a hill to reach Mary who had been kidnapped by a giant gorilla. No, wait, that was Donkey Kong… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/23 "2004-08-01T17:52:02Z")
Damn, **JSG**. Back in my day all we had was a yellow disc that ate dots and was chased by ghosts. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sycorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/24 "2004-08-01T18:09:26Z")
This will probably be my last post to this thread, which I now regret starting. I am NOT defending Brown’s book and did not expect all this vitriol for suggesting ANOTHER book that may debunk The DaVinci Code, and explains the origins of his theories. The editor of “Secrets of the Code,” Dan Burstein, brings together excerpts from books and various documents by scholars (“scholar: a learned person; a specialist in a given branch of knowledge…”), some of which were used by Brown. Many of these scholars support the idea that Mary Magdalene was the “apostle of apostles,” and had an intimate relationship with Jesus, and that the Roman Catholic church, among others, wanted to diminish women’s roles in organized Christianity. Whether Mary M. and Jesus were married or not is something they can’t fully support, but of course there is speculation based on the customs of the times. As I said before, Burstein’s book (NOT Brown’s!) attempts to separate fact from fiction. Despite your snotty comments, I find investigations into ancient religious rites, the history of Christianity, and women’s roles from Biblical to present times to be, yes, fascinating. If you don’t care to learn more about these subjects, fine; that is no reason to ridicule me or others who have a desire to learn more. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/25 "2004-08-01T18:27:05Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > For cripes sake. _The Davinci Code_ is not intended to present anything as fact, or to present the theory as credible IRL. Well firstly, in his foreword Brown claims that all the documents and rituals are indeed “accurate”, which they aren’t. Secondly, a surprising number of people believe him, including two or three friends who recommended the novel to me. **Sycorax** (enjoying being in that tree? 😉 ), I’m sorry your thread got diverted. I think the book you mention sounds very interesting. I have read various other books that deal with some of these issues, written long before Dan Brown wrote his novel. Maybe some people figure that a book that only deals with the dubious presentation of history in one novel isn’t a particularly good jumping-off point for such studies. But it’s a fascinating subject, whether it’s rubbish or not. If you’re interested, try the two books I mentioned earlier (neither is very good), as well as _The Gnostic Gospels_, and _Jesus: the Evidence_. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/26 "2004-08-01T18:57:11Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Well firstly, in his foreword Brown claims that all the documents and rituals are indeed “accurate”, which they aren’t. Secondly, a surprising number of people believe him, including two or three friends who recommended the novel to me. Not to mention that I saw an NBC special devoted to the “truths” of the book including interviews with him claiming the truth behind the theories. ---
**Author:** ![Sycorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/27 "2004-08-01T19:28:54Z")
jjimm: thank you for reminding others that this thread got off into a debate about Brown’s book and not about the book to which I refer. By the way, I must point out that it was not I who was imprisoned in the pine tree; I used my powers to imprison Ariel in the tree, and Prospero released him. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/28 "2004-08-01T19:42:00Z")
Oops. Now I remember: you were grown into a hoop, weren’t you, you blue-eyed hag. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sycorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/29 "2004-08-01T21:55:01Z")
I am blue-eyed but often green-eyed, depending on my moods. (I am a not a “hag.”) Now I must return to my incantations and spells in the hopes of imprisoning the barbarians residing here who have insulted me in this discussion of things about which they profess to know but know not. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/30 "2004-08-02T01:15:06Z")
> [@Sycorax](#): > > …things about which they profess to know but know not. Them’s fighting words - what did we get wrong? I’ll give a quick summary: - Pretty much every single item presented as fact in Brown’s book is nonsense. - Therefore, saying that the book raises interesting questions about early Christianity is about the same as saying that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion raises interesting questions about Judaism, or that I Dream of Jeannie is a thoughtful examination of how NASA really works. - Indeed, some of its ideas (especially about Catholicism) come across like insidious propaganda, and could be used to engender hatred in the same kind of way as the afore-mentioned Protocols. - If you want to enjoy the book on the level of fiction, please do so. However, I don’t see how this is possible, as Brown’s prose is eye-gougingly horrible (especially for a Shakespeare fan!) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/31 "2004-08-02T01:47:21Z")
Eh, in the OP’s defense, the original computer game of _Civilization_ awakened a love of history in me, even though the historical development of the game wasn’t what one would call “accurate” - especially when I was launching starships by 10 BC. Regardless, the original impulse for a person wanting to learn more about a subject is nowhere near as important as the fact that a person wants to learn more about a subject. Imho, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Sycorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Sycorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sycorax)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/32 "2004-08-02T02:10:08Z")
Jeez, this is getting tiresome. Lambchops, have you read any of my previous posts? How many times do I have to say it: I am NOT promoting Brown’s book or saying his ideas are “facts.” I am suggesting that those who were intrigued by it might be interested in Burstein’s book which is a compilation of excerpts from scholarly works. We are NOT dealing in “facts” here, but educated suppositions and speculations about Mary M. and Jesus, some of which are based on historical documents and scholarly research. Brown’s book is a novel and therefore I am not presuming that the ideas presented are “facts.” It does raise some interesting questions that I thought were worth investigating, and Burstein’s book is an attempt to debunk or support Brown’s theories. Perhaps the title of Bursteins’ book is misleading and implies some kind of “proof” for Brown’s theories – not so. Burstein’s book attempts to provide objective documentation for or against Brown’s theories. There is no attempt on my part or that of Burstein to engender “hatred” towards Catholicism, but rather to document the history of Christianity and attempts of various religions to eliminate women from having any significant role in the establishment of and contemporary practice of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/33 "2004-08-02T02:58:40Z")
I understand what you’re saying, **Sycorax**. I understand that you’re not endorsing Brown’s book as fact. But my point is that it is ridiculously out of the realm of fact. If you mean that you read it and think, “You know, early Christian history would be interesting”, then maybe it’s done something for you. But saying that it raises interesting questions is like saying the [TimeCube](http://www.timecube.com/) guy raises serious questions about time and space. It’s a pile of crap which doesn’t deserve lengthy introspection. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/34 "2004-08-02T12:58:24Z")
It’s not as if Burstein’s book is the only one to have jumped on the _Da Vinci Code_ bandwaggon. There is an ever-growing slew of such books. Publishers will soon be running out of suitably punning titles. Some of them, such as Martin Lunn’s _Da Vinci Code Decoded_ and Simon Cox’s _Cracking the Da Vinci Code_, also think that the various theories used by Brown are valid. But others, including Carl E. Olson and Sandra Miesel’s _The Da Vinci Hoax_, Richard Abanes’s _The Truth Behind the Da Vinci Code_, James L. Garlow and Peter Jones’s _Cracking Da Vinci’s Code_, Steve Kellmeyer’s _Fact and Fiction in The Da Vinci Code_, Amy Welborn’s _De-Coding Da Vinci_ and Ben Withrington’s _The Gospel Code_, think that they’re all just bullshit. They too contain ‘educated suppositions and speculations about Mary M. and Jesus, some of which are based on historical documents and scholarly research’. Take your pick. By all means read Burstein, but there is really no excuse not to read the other side of the argument as well. Bear in mind that most of those ‘scholars’ anthologised by Burstein represent an extreme minority view, even among those writers critical of mainstream ecclesiastical history. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/35 "2004-08-02T13:32:22Z")
> [@APB](#): > > It’s not as if Burstein’s book is the only one to have jumped on the _Da Vinci Code_ bandwaggon. There is an ever-growing slew of such books. Publishers will soon be running out of suitably punning titles. Good God, no kidding. Every bookstore seems to have an entire section devoted just to the Knights Templar now. And it’s not historical tomes, either - the titles are things like, The Secret History of the Knights Templar, or, How the Knights Templar and the Masons Control the World, etc. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/36 "2004-08-02T15:02:52Z")
I thoroughly recommend Abanes’ The Truth About the DaVinci Code. It’s a thorough point-by-point refutation of the factual errors. While it is written from a Christian viewpoint, it’s much heavier on the factual inaccuracies than on the theological aberrations. Plus, it’s very short & pithy. Not a comprehensive tome the size of the actual DVC. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/37 "2004-08-02T18:04:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Its been a while but isn’t the big plot twist in the \*Illuminatus Trilogy \* the same as the _Davinci Code_. Only done better, funnier and thirty years ago? From what I’ve read about this book on the SDMB, everything in _Illuminatus!_ is done better. But the whole Jesus thing doesn’t play into it. Wilson does devote a couple of chapters to the Knights Templar and the Priory of Sion in the _Cosmic Trigger_ books. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/38 "2004-08-02T18:12:24Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > Yet, when Daniel Brown cooks up a thoroughly implausible and completely fictional plot about Jesus running off on his motorcycle with Mary Magdalene, producing offspring who are a closely hidden secret of the Catholic Church disguised as drinking cups and part of the worldwide conspiracy led by the Evenings of Malta (no, wait, that’s not right, but it’s close)… people are rushing to buy it and speculate on how much is true. We live in a strange age. Wow, are you guys ever negative. I’m sure it’s not the greatest literary achievement ever, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. And it _does_ raise some questions that any curious person would want to know the answer to. The DaVinci Code refers to _real_ works of art, _real_ people, and _real_ organizations. This isn’t about Gandalf the wizard casting spells; it’s not completely made up out of whole-cloth. And a lot of people just don’t happen to be experts on the history of the Roman Catholic Church, and might happen to be curious as to which elements of the novel are real and which are made up. What on Earth is wrong with that? It seems pretty natural that when someone describes a known painting, and points out elements of the painting that supposedly represent something, one would be curious enough to look at that painting and see if those elements really _are_ there, or if he’s just making it up. One can realize that it’s fiction, yet still be curious as to how many elements of the novel are based on real things. You folks need to relax a little. ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/39 "2004-08-02T18:33:10Z")
> [@Sycorax](#): > > Despite your snotty comments,…that is no reason to ridicule me or others who have a desire to learn more. > [@Sycorax](#): > > …the barbarians residing here who have insulted me in this discussion of things about which they profess to know but know not. > [@Sycorax](#): > > …for reminding others that this thread got off into a debate about Brown’s book and not about the book to which I refer. **Sycorax** , it seems like you have yet to learn a lesson I think every Doper goes through. I know I had a hard time with it, but listen: **The OP doesn’t own the thread.** It’s sorta like when smart kids go to college and discover that there really are smarter people out there. It’s a shock. Likewise, when you compose and post a new thread, you put it out there for everyone to comment on - this is a _discussion board_. And a lot of the time, people will disagree with you. Vehemently. If you want to argue with what is said, that’s fine, but whining because the thread didn’t go the way you wanted it to is just being a poor sport. Nobody has insulted _you_, in talking about the _book_. You are not your post. Besides which, a mod is clearly following and replying to this thread. If the discussion had become a train wreck that would be a different matter, and surely **CK** would call it and probably lock the thread, so it’s no use getting your hackles up and saying people are missing the point of the thread when all they’re doing is voicing dissenting opinion _on the topic at hand_. Anyway, how did you expect to open a discussion about a book on the validity of Brown’s theories without discussing the validity of Brown’s theories? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178/40 "2004-08-22T10:21:10Z")
Magic reply. I have read this thread and wondered where it would end up- you have done it all so well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secrets-of-the-code-unauthorized-guide-to-mysteries-of-the-davinci-code/257178.md?page=3)