# Section 31: A little more praise, a little less idealistic condescension, please **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516 "2010-02-18T19:59:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/1 "2010-02-18T19:59:42Z")
Another Star Trek thread… why did Sisko, Bashir, and Adm. Ross have their panties in a bunch about Sloane and Sec. 31? the Prophets and Section 31 basically won their stupid war for them. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/2 "2010-02-19T08:16:33Z")
Well, that’s not _strictly_ true…they basically won the war by saying “give up, and we’ll stop Section 31 from _finishing_ murdering your race.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/3 "2010-02-19T09:03:51Z")
What’s a little genocide in wartime, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/4 "2010-02-19T10:14:56Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > What’s a little genocide in wartime, huh? By the end of the war, I think _both_ sides were attempting a little genocide. ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/5 "2010-02-19T18:51:16Z")
Sisko, Bashir, and Admiral Ross all grew up being taught that the Federation was a perfect society which had long ago risen above violence an deceit. Learning that there was a secret CIA working behind the scenes to protect their paradise was a shock to their lifetimes of idealism. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/6 "2010-02-19T19:27:30Z")
2ply nailed it. Sec 31 violated the spirit of the Federation. That’s why DS-9 is the best Star Trek incarnation; it shows the grittier side of the future. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/7 "2010-02-19T19:52:02Z")
Also, please note that you’re looking for “less idealistic condescension” from Star Trek. That’s going to be a difficult proposition. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/8 "2010-02-19T20:20:43Z")
I thought the hand-wringing about “genocide” was ridiculous. As far as we were aware, the whole race was part of one collective which was waging aggresive war on the Federation. They were legitimate targets. There weren’t any non-Founder changelings, as far as the viewer or the Federation knew, except for Odo. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/section-31-a-little-more-praise-a-little-less-idealistic-condescension-please/529516/9 "2010-02-19T20:25:23Z")
Even a democracy under the rule of law can have a spy agency that will, in extremis, do nasty things. But it has to be pursuant to law. An utterly lawless and secretive agency that answers to no one is, or ought to be, repugnant to anyone who really cares about democracy, or has sworn an oath to uphold its constitution or charter. That goes for any Starfleet officer or, by analogy, any U.S. Navy officer.